To MMO or NOT to MMO: Marvel Mystery Oil follow up research on a high mileage 4.2L I6 engine: synthetic oil Borate plus water = seal damage

 In engine oils, the microparticulate borates are prepared by dissolving an alkali metal borate in the presence of a metal sulfonate and succinimde dispersant to form a micro-emulsion which is then added to a base oil, or as part of an additive package. When an oil uses this additive, an analysis of that oil will show both potassium and boron. The concentration of borate additives is in the range of 0.5% to 2% by weight. Any concentration less than 0.5%, or larger than 2%, shows up as increased wear in the 4-Ball Wear Testing machine. As you can see, additive chemistry is a meticulous balancing act, so as to preclude additive clash. Many lubricating oils and greases now contain borates in various forms to reduce wear by the action of these solid borate films, which act as AW and EP additives. When used with the dithiocarbamate family of antimony’s and moly’s, corrosion and antioxidant resistant greases can be formulated as well to provide the same EP and AW qualities. A side benefit of the borates in motor oils and gear lubricants is their action as mild detergents and as acid reducing agents. Their alkili chemistry helps to retain the oil's TBN, or Total Base Number as well.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/boron-additives.57848/ 

 So the main "detergent" added to synthetic oil is borate lubricant!

Furthermore, it has been found that water contamination of the borate lubricant can lead to seal leakage. https://patents.google.com/patent/US4401580A/en

 Combustion byproducts contaminate oil

However, when engine temperatures are low, such as at startup and during short-trip operation in low ambient temperatures, water vapor condenses (turns into a liquid) on cylinder walls and enters the crankcase, where it leads to sludge and corrosion.

 The friction coefficient behaviour of borate additives was attributed to boric acid (H3BO3) at the tribocontact which was formed when boron oxide in oils containing boron additives reacts spontaneously with moisture in open air.

https://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/17660/26/Animashaun_L.A_Mechanical_PhD_2017.pdf 

 Some other means of avoiding hydrolytic effect of water on boron is the use of hard boron-permeated layer. These could be; boron carbide [138], vanadium boride [139], titanium boride [140], iron boride [141-144], boride ceramic [145]. The other forms of boron-permeated layers are; zirconium boride/boron carbide composites [145, 146], hexagonal boron nitride (h-BN) as additives [147] and BN composites [148-150], boron-doped diamond-like carbon (DLC) [151].

 So by rereading my MMO research - I've discovered that - based on this new thread I'm reading - the synthetic oil over time will actually wear out the gaskets!! So better to use conventional oil and MMO.

Base oils often lack the key performance attributes required for proper function; therefore, additives are incorporated to deliver the missing performance characteristics. Though the base lubricants can degrade seals, it's usually the additives that more severely affect elastomers. These additives, which are more or less reactive components, can attack the seal material at all oil temperatures. https://www.machinedesign.com/mechanical-motion-systems/article/21833760/selecting-a-lubricant-that-matches-the-seal   Lubricant additives sometimes deposit near the sealing lip and develop into hardened accumulations that result in excessive seal lip wear from even the slightest axial movements.

http://ultimatesyntheticoil.com/oil-seal-gasket-leaks-from-changing-to-synthetic-oil 

 Synthetic oils have different base stocks, which comprise some 90% of the oil. [Again, a generality, which can in reality vary from 75% to nearly 95%, depending on many factors.] The base stock is the actual lubricant The other 10% or so is the additive package.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=nboard&th=499412 

 So you want the clean engine that modern detergent oil promises? Maybe not a good idea.
Using detergent oil in the N engine cause excessive wear of bearings and seals because it allows abrasive material to circulate and recirculate through the engine.
Early engines used straight engine oil (non-detergent; "ND") and material settled out of the oil to accumulate as sludge in the pan and passages. The sludge was manually removed when the engine was rebuilt. The N uses ND oil, filters only the oil to the governor, and the sludge is manually removed during rebuild.
Later engines were built to last so long between rebuilds that the sludge built-up to restrict oil flow. That problem was solved by adding detergents to the oil. Detergents (surfactants) keep the material in suspension so it can not settle out and accumulate to block passages. The material will then circulate and recirculate along with the oil over the bearings and against the seals.
That is a problem because the material is abrasive and causes unwelcome, excessive wear to the bearings and seals. That problem is solved by using a 100%, full-flow oil filter to remove the abrasive material before it circulates through the bearings and up against the seals. Using detergent oil requires the use of a 100%, full-flow oil filter to prevent excessive wear of bearings and seals.

 Most "full-flow" oil filters routinely bypass a significant percentage of the oil, especially when cold and even at operating temperature.

I am convinced that the use of detergent oils in a "clean" N engine is the better practice despite the partial-flow oil filter system. Of course, such practice would not be recommended in any engine that has not been thoroughly cleaned during a major overhaul.

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2020/08/ptfe-or-teflon-oil-engine-treatment-for.html

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2020/06/conditioning-valve-gasket-seal-on.html 

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2020/06/drumming-flapping-sound-diagnosing.html 

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2020/07/how-does-new-transmission-fluid-fare.html 

When I searched my blog for Marvel Mystery Oil I got the above results. I guess if my car makes it to 300K miles that is a huge deal! The engine design has the oil pan very difficult to reach - so if the oil pickup screen gets clogged then it's a huge major pain!! So the question is does someone risk clogging the oil pickup screen by using a mild solvent like MMO (10 to 30% mineral spirits or paint thinner along with Wintergreen oil to condition and lubricate seals with mineral oil as the main ingredient) - OR do we risk a high mileage car clogging up on its own from carbon buildup?

The MMO should break down sludge and soften up carbon deposits but said deposits can not break down totally - it's supposed to be mild enough to slowly dissolve carbon deposits? Here are report backs from people using MMO on the same kind of engine that I drive:

1) I run about 1/2 to 3/4 quart MMO (Mystery Marvel Oil) after 100K. Maybe it's me but the engine seems runs smoother after I started using it. For the most part I have always run Mobile 1 in it.

On high mileage cars, adding these agents right before an oil change then dumping the oil can free up sticky rings, etc.

2) I have had a constant (daily) PO300 “Random or Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected.” or PO306 CE Code P0306 occurs when the ECM (engine control module) detects a misfire on engine cylinder number 6. light on for months, Started using Marvel Mystery Oil (don't laugh) in my TB crankcase since 11/2013 (now Feb. 2014) and with my code reader no PO300 or PO306 has shown up during several checks. even my mechanic was surprised, He told me with 180,000 miles on it, I should just drop in a new engine. Also GM has admitted to the fact that the head design was defective for 2005 and some other years, something to do with the valves not closing properly in the combustion cycle. Perhaps the Marvel of this mystery is that the carbon is getting cleaned up. :undecided So this is what it's worth.

3) That P0014 code is a sticking variable valve timing actuator. It's easy to change and I paid $43 at Chevy for the part. What it's does is push on the left hand (or maybe right hand viewed from the driver's seat) timing chain guide, which advances the timing of the exhaust valves (I think), and if this sticks the timing stays advanced and that code is stored in the ECM. That code means timing too advanced on the exhaust valves.

I changed it, when I removed it there was oil sludge on it. I changed the oil and put some Marvel Mystery Oil in to desludge the engine, the next oil change I put a quart of Rislone in for the same purpose. I am at 30% oil life remaining on the second oil change after changing that actuator and the trouble code just reoccurred for the first time since I changed the actuator.

I am going to change the oil again, adding another quart of Mystery Oil to clean things out.

I hope that code does not reoccur, but I think it's caused by sludge on the actuator. It's not a serious problem.

4) Then did a oil and filter change ( 5W-30 Castrol Syn-blend) and 1 bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil in place of 1 Qt of oil. Cleared the code again. It's been over 2 weeks now and still no code. If it comes back anytime soon then I will go ahead and change out the selenoid but for now - all is well.

5) I changed the solenoid, the cam position sensor, and I always put either Rislone, Mystery Oil, or Seafoam in at oil changes.

6) I changed the oil, regular 20w40 and added about a pint of Marvel M O and figured that with 7 quarts would be about like 5w30. I started driving it and had the oil pressure to dip a couple of times and then no more dropping of the gauge. I drove it about 3K miles , changed to proper F S oil. Still no problems with it dropping. Still plan to add about a cup of MMO and drive it a week or so before each oil change. Do as you wish but this worked for me. Hope this helps someone like me that searched every where to find a safe solution and keep my TB on the road. It has 143K on it now and running great. 

 

 What is MMO? 

Petroleum Distillates (Hydrotreated Heavy 64742-52-5 60-100%
Naphthenic)

Petroleum Distillates (Stoddard Solvent) 8052-41-3 10-30%

30% mineral spirits Stoddard solvent is a type of mineral spirits. Mineral spirits (U.S.) or white spirits (U.K.), also known as mineral turpentine, turpentine substitute, petroleum spirits, solvent naphtha (petroleum), varsol, or, generically, "paint thinner", is a petroleum-derived common organic solvent.

60% mineral oil

IF used in the engine oil, make sure to keep an eye on the oil level. MMO WILL burn off as it has a low flash point, it is what it is designed to do.

 Mineral spirits, Petroleum solvent, Spotting naphtha [Note: A refined petroleum solvent with a flash point of 102-110°F,

 Mineral Oil flashpoint: Flash point: 135C (275F) CC Autoignition temperature: 260 - 370C (500 - 698F) Combustible Liquid and Vapor!

 

So the mineral oil should stay around.... while the paint thinner will burn off.

 

 My other go to additive is Marvel Mystery Oil. I put it in the crankcase and gas tank. Just don't put too much in the gas tank as it will make your exhaust smoke. 

 https://www.pipercubforum.com/marvel.htm

 

 OK so now I'll review my previous MMO posts to see if I can glean anything still.