Military TR-3B triangle crafts are from Nazi-CIA collaboration, NOT E.T. alien craft

Yeah John Keel wrote cool books and gave cool talks but I don't trust him.

Gray Barker: An eccentric writer and publisher from West Virginia who wrote They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers (1956), popularizing the "Men in Black". Later evidence showed he treated UFO lore largely as entertainment and commercial enterprise. [1, 2, 3]
James Moseley: The publisher of Saucer News, a sharp-witted debunker-turned-participant in the UFO scene known for his humor and elaborate lecture circuit props. [1, 2, 3]
John Keel: Author of The Mothman Prophecies, who was closer to a Fortean investigator than a nuts-and-bolts ufologist, though he frequently interacted with—and was targeted by—Barker and Moseley's pranks. [1, 2]

Collaborations and Hoaxes

The Lost Creek UFO Film: In 1966, Barker and Moseley staged a deliberate UFO hoax. They filmed a ceramic saucer model ("boogie" saucer) held on a fishing pole in front of a car in Lost Creek, West Virginia. Moseley used the footage in lectures and television appearances as a gag prop, while Barker sold copies through his mail-order service. [1]
Pranks and Retribution: The trio and their peers maintained a tight, cynical inner circle behind the scenes, frequently pulling elaborate satirical stunts on each other and testing the credulity of the broader public UFO community

Barker wrote an article about the Flatwoods monster and flying saucers and submitted it to FATE Magazine, a magazine devoted to paranormal phenomena.  According to Wikipedia, FATE was co-founded in 1948 by Raymond A. Palmer (editor of Amazing Stories) and Curtis Fuller.  Still in publication today, FATE is now the longest-running magazine devoted to the paranormal.

For Barker, that was fate indeed!  His article, “The Monster and the Saucer,” was accepted and published in January 1953.  
https://news.lib.wvu.edu/2021/05/25/gray-barker-and-the-men-in-black-they-knew-too-much-about-flying-saucers/

Gray Barker’s book, The Silver Bridge, linked the collapse of the Silver bridge in Point Pleasant with the appearance of the Mothman,

https://evergreenreview.com/read/it-came-from-west-virginia/

But, as documented in Gabriel Mckee’s The Saucerian: UFOs, Men in Black, and the Unbelievable Life of Gray Barker (The MIT Press, 2025), scaring people would become his meal ticket—and his passion. Barker would grow up to become one of the leading publishers of literature on flying saucers, alien life forms, and the conspiracies that covered them up. And he did it in ALL CAPS.

That Barker hailed from Appalachia, rich in the folklore of angels, devils and tricksters, was not incidental. Science fiction merely updated these archetypes for the atomic age.

In the postwar era, the leading science fiction magazine was Raymond Palmer’s Amazing Stories, whose “hard science” readers were dismayed when he started publishing stories by Richard Shaver, beginning with 1945’s “I Remember Lemuria!” Shaver claimed that below the surface of our planet lived two warring clans of subterranean robots: the Dero, or detrimental robots, who tormented surface people with ray guns, and the benevolent but ineffectual Tero, or integrative robots. Thus was born “The Shaver Mystery.” Amazing Stories even received a letter from someone who claimed he’d fought the Dero in WWII. The lines between hard sci-fi and tales of the paranormal were starting to blur. And it was in that shifting middle ground where Barker would make his home.

  John Keel, who gave the Men in Black their name. Keel was also an adept hoaxer, although susceptible to being hoaxed himself. His bestseller The Mothman Prophecies, published nearly a decade later (and which became a 2002 movie starring Richard Gere), is strewn with the residue of hoaxes perpetrated on Keel for over a year by Barker and Moseley, in retribution for a prank Keel pulled on Barker.

I think that military space travel was more advanced soon after World War II due to the Nazi-CIA collaboration....

 More National UFO Center "triangle" sightings:

It had a large blinking light at its center on the bottom and three constant glowing lights at each point on the bottom. My camera is shaky so they look like they're blinking. They're not. Only the center light strobed consistently. You could hear a faint low hum like a jet only much quieter. You cannot hear it on the video. It flew very eerily, low, slow, and appeared bigger than our typical fighter jets. It seemed to fly in a somewhat straight direction moving from West to East/Southeast. I've lived in the rural country all my life and I love star gazing and watching aircraft/satellites. We have a nearby municipal airport and military jets fly by often (old and new). I've NEVER seen this before. It was NOT in a V shape or T shape, it was a complete triangle.  

.....

 https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=200055\

Fantastic video of the craft on that link!! But it's way farther than what I saw. My sighting was about 50 feet from me.

Here is someone who similarly had the triangle craft fly low over their yard just like me!!

could hear a wooshing sound like air passing by. I saw the craft lights but the aircraft was unable to be seen. It looked like a backwards triangle with two evenly spaced white lights at the front and one white light at the back, that did not blink. Just stationary white lights. I only heard the craft when it was slowly moving over my backyard. It did not sound like a jet. It was very strange and before it came over my yard and I looked up, my back solar light started growing brighter then dimmed before it glided over my home and again I could not see the craft only the 4 lights in a backwards triangle.

 https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=199372

Yeah it's definitely a "metal" body to the TR-3B

there I saw above the tree line, but it wasn’t right above me it was a few miles away but In the air just hovering. It was clear as day a triangle shaped craft, the top was a grayish blue metallic color and the bottom was just black… as I was driving I couldn’t see because the trees were blocking it but as I kept continuing more on the highway I saw it again in the same spot I clearly knew that was not an aircraft. It was very large. It had to be the size of a car even bigger. It was not directly above me though.

 https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=199278

a triangular UAP appeared from the left of us, it was telephone pole high and was slowly spinning in a circle while moving to the right slowly. It had no sound to the craft and it had lights on each side of it. It wasn’t going fast and there was cars behind us as well, atleast 5.

At first glance I literally thought it was a plane that lost power and was gliding down. But after observing longer I noticed it was rotating and hovering to the right, it was rotating and hovering slowly. It had a green light on one corner of it and a red one on the other corner. It came from behind trees on the left side of the road &’ ended up headed towards fields on the right.

What’s weird was the lights were very visible like obvious what colors they were but it’s like the lights were just there. The lights didn’t travel anywhere. It was as high as the telephone poles and right in front on my windshield view. Me and my daughter drew images of what the craft looked like to us, I drew mine in the living room, she drew hers in her room. Our drawings matched with how to craft looked. My boyfriend claims he heard it making a buzzing sound.

Yep it makes a low humming noise that you can hear if you are that close to it!

 https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=199205

Here we have TWO triangles flying side by side and then a military helicopter follows up...

https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=199107

sometimes the Triangle craft is seen to "vanish" after becoming a very bright light:

Three bright lights, red blue and green on the corners of a triangle four or five bright white lights in the center
It was a triangle shaped ship, but all I could see were lights on the bottom three blue green and red. It was flying northeast. I only saw it for about I wanna say 10 seconds flying north east then it stopped bright lights underneath white ones four or five they be came super bright lit up the sky for just a second went dim, and then the whole ship shot straight up out into space.
https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=198827

I saw a huge triangular grayish black craft pass over our houses. The bulk of the craft was completely over the neighbor's house and extended partly over our house. It was moving very slow, I would guess about 15-25 mph. It was flying very low probably about 50-75 feet above the tree line. As it passed over, I could hear a low humming sound.

https://nuforc.org/sighting/?id=197226

 

 It was in the sky it was triangle shape and not high in the sky but not too low, it was hovering and a beam came out of it

Then a beam of light came out from it idk how to explain but the light was so damn bright like it was crazy

Blue/red lights, black triangle no sound darts with a light trail behind, moves up, down, horizontal etc

Blue/red lights, black triangle no sound darts with a light trail behind, moves up, down, horizontal. Then completely moves so quickly it's gone.

Over 50% of Psych shrinks are Big Pharma stooges for a corporate fascist mass mind-control "culture" $100,000,000 a year!

 In 2011, Wilens, and fellow ADHD ‘experts’ Biederman and Spencer, were sanctioned by Harvard University for failing to disclose millions of dollars in pharmaceutical company support they received (Kowalczyk, 2011). 

from  ADHD debate clouded by preconceptions and undisclosed conflicts of interest

Australian & New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, 2013

It's very popular today to accuse someone of "being on the spectrum" if they act in a way that you don't find conducive to whatever "social norms" you espouse (usually what is every on television at current times). But very few people realize that psychiatry is rife with Big Pharma manipulation.

 Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHA) is one of the most common comorbid disorders of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that can accompany autism, triggered by it, or be a consequence of it.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10983102/ 

So we know that Asperger's Syndrome was removed from the DSM when the "spectrum" was created to make up for the disease created by the Nazi collaborator - shuffling off children to be killed as being mentally diseased for not properly following "social norms" of Nazism.

The question is - to what extent has fascist corporate culture now made "the spectrum" the norm accusation for those not willing to socially conform?

 when ‘industry support’ involves hidden payments like those given to Biederman, Spencer and Wilens.

Gary Greenberg's research has similarly exposed Big Pharma corruption funding psychiatry research and the making of the DSM. But what needs to be realized is this cozy Big Pharma funding of psychiatry is the norm for the industry!

Other researchers cited who were involved in conflict of interest controversies include Dr Wagner and Dr Rush of the University of Texas, and Dr Christopher Gillberg of the University of Gotheburg, Sweden. Dr Gillberg has a criminal conviction for destroying research documentation (Ramshaw, 2009; Swedish Parliamentary Ombudsmen, 2006). In addition, the vast majority of members of the RACP coordinated ADHD guidelines committee, and the RACP itself, had financial ties to ADHD medication manufacturers (RACP, 2009). 

 It is totally unacceptable for Mr Whitely to suggest that the members of the RACP involved in the development of the Draft Guidelines had ‘hidden commercial ties’ when in fact all potential conflict of interest statements were clearly recorded in Appendix B.

 the committee disregarded submissions highlighting the issues around Biederman, Spencer
and Wilens. They also ignored research that challenged their preconceptions by bringing into question the long-term safety and efficacy of ADHD medications, most notably the Oregon Health & Science University, Drug Class Review on Pharmacologic Treatments for ADHD. (McDonagh et al., 2007).......

 I agree with Professor Levy that the finding that: ‘In children with ADHD, ever receiving stimulant medication was found to increase the odds of being identified as performing below age-level by a classroom teacher by a factor of 10.5 times (compared to never receiving stimulant medication)’, is a ‘startling figure’ (Department of Health, 2010). However, I cannot understand how the appropriate response to ‘startling’ results is to ignore them.

Liz Kowalczyk's reporting in July 2011 covered high-profile Harvard and Massachusetts General Hospital psychiatrists (including Dr. Joseph Biederman) who violated institutional conflict of interest rules regarding undisclosed pharmaceutical industry financial ties.

 the three doctors of accepting millions of dollars in consulting fees from drug makers from 2000 to 2007, but failing to report much of the income to university officials.

https://www.madinamerica.com/2026/03/undisclosed-industry-payments-found-in-top-psychiatry-journals/ 

 Over 50% of psychiatrists accept industry payments, and studies show that industry-sponsored drug trials are substantially more likely to report positive results than independent research

  A 2021 Mad in America investigation revealed that industry paid psychiatrists alone $340 million between 2014 to 2020. The same investigation also reported that financial COIs were present in the testing of every new psychotropic drug approved by the FDA between 2013 to 2017.

 financial conflicts of interest (COIs) 

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7260092/ 

2021 Jul 1.

Published in final edited form as: Adm Policy Ment Health. 2020 Jul;47(4):526–530. doi: 10.1007/s10488-020-01009-2

Exploring the Psychiatrist-Industry Financial Relationship: Insight from the Open Payment Data of Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services

 Over half of active psychiatrists (55.7%) received some form of payments from pharmaceutical manufacturers. Of these, top 2.8% of psychiatrists received 82.6% of the payments.  

741 Shrinks (2.8%) received over $60,000 each for "services" includes serving as faculty or a speaker at a venue, for a non-accredited and noncertified continuing education program, or for an accredited or certified continuing education program. 

$61,746,388  in total for "services" (67.7)

680 (91.8)

 In 2016–2017, pharmaceutical manufacturers provided 812,877 payments worth $110,512,607.18 to 26,422 psychiatrists in the US.

  The majority of payment to psychiatrists receiving ≤$20,000 were in the form of food and beverages, totaling $12.6 million (65.2%). The majority of payment to psychiatrists receiving >$20,000 were for compensation for services ($61.7 million, 67.7%) or consulting fees ($12.1 million, 13.2%).

the Freedom Trailer Camper! Looks like an awesome set-up but not cheap.

So you mount it onto a trailer and there you go!   (playlist)

Built in Lamar, Missouri by craftsmen who believe in quality, innovation and American-built durability.

https://freedomcampers.com/products/trailer-camper?variant=40864687456291 

 The Freedom Camper’s proprietary insulation technology keeps interior temperatures comfortable, even when it’s 20°F outside. A bare bones truck bed sleeper with maximum weather protection.

https://freedomcampers.com/products/trailer-camper

 

https://freedomcampers.com/products/trailer-mounting-kit?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=08f1daa6f&pr_rec_pid=7191368073251&pr_ref_pid=7191337336867&pr_seq=uniform

 high-density structural foam that is completely coated and sealed with a durable, truck bed liner-style polyurea exterior and interior finish...

Polyurea is a type of elastomer created by the reaction between an isocyanate component and a synthetic resin blend. When these two components are mixed under high pressure and temperature, typically at the spray gun nozzle, they react almost instantly to form a highly durable, flexible, and waterproof coating.

Unlike epoxy or polyurethane coatings, polyurea cures in seconds and doesn’t require long drying periods or ideal weather conditions. That fast cure time allows it to bond immediately to surfaces and form a seamless, chemical-resistant membrane, the foundation of why Dura-Coat is so effective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will Karoline "Joker smile" Leavitt be able to smile again now that she's out of the limelight? Mar-A-Lago Face recovery time!

 

 https://www.irishstar.com/culture/entertainment/karoline-leavitt-plastic-surgery-speculation-35273541

 Others are accusing her face of being 'permanently' frozen, which is a common side effect of a poorly done cosmetic surgery.

One user on X posted the image, writing, “@The WH propaganda arm is Karoline Leavitt @PressSec, who’s had so much plastic surgery that her face is now a permanent Joker smile.”

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/wait-thats-karoline-leavitt-throwback-photo-fuels-plastic-surgery-rumors-fans-say-shes-unrecognizable/articleshow/123062851.cms?from=mdr 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/dangerous-message-hiding-karoline-leavitt-195950269.html

 Karoline Leavitt's lips flecked with injection punctures and slathered in gloss too thin for the job, in one of Christopher Anderson's fascinatingly unflattering viral images captured for Vanity Fair's story on Trump 2.0. While the consensus on TikTok seems to be that the White House press secretary's injector hates her,...., lip filler needs four weeks to settle in.... it appears that women like Leavitt are wearing their compliance on their faces and bodies. If there's a brutality to this, it's because it's a reflection of an administration whose calling card is harm, greed, and rising fascism....The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, with its constant references to Botox and body enhancements, is a compelling reflection of this dynamic,

 

Online rumors or social media commentary claiming her face is "frozen" or that she is unable to smile are internet speculation often tied to public scrutiny of political figures and cosmetic enhancements. [1, 2]

Public Scrutiny and Appearance

Social media users frequently comment on the facial expressions and cosmetic procedures of high-profile political figures. [1]
Close-up photographs, such as a viral portrait by Vanity Fair, have sparked heavy online debate and speculation regarding lip fillers and facial movement.

Yes, Botox wears off over time, and your facial muscles will regain full movement so you can smile normally again. The effects are temporary and typically fade in three to six months. [1, 2, 3, 4]

How Botox Fades

Temporary blocks: Botox stops nerve signals to the treated muscle.
Nerve recovery: Your body slowly forms new nerve endings.
Muscle movement: Your muscles start to move again as the block fades.
Full return: You will get your normal smile back. [1, 2]

Timeline

Peak effect: This happens at two weeks after treatment.
Starting to fade: Movement begins to return around three months.
Complete wear-off: Most effects are gone by four to six months.
 . The term "Mar-a-Lago face" even emerged in some circles—referring to the glamorized appearance often associated with prominent women close to Trump’s inner circle.

https://www.thelist.com/1781895/karoline-leavitt-unrecognizable-college-photos/
 
 The 59-year-old and his wife Karoline Levitt share an age gap of just over three decades. 

Proof that the Drumpf Regime is fascist aka "national socialism" and not capitalist

 https://www.counterpunch.org/2026/08/12/trumps-national-socialism-agenda/

GAO report: Billionaires force millions of full-time workers into welfare (food stamps and medicaid)

 We found of SNAP/Medicaid recipients in 11 states or 20% of the US population:

• About two-thirds worked full time
• Most worked for private sector employers
• Workers were largely in transportation, restaurants and food prep, and retail sales jobs
• Some employers in selected states had thousands of beneficiaries on their payrolls

 https://peoplesworld.org/article/more-than-ever-taxpayers-subsidize-low-wages-paid-by-corporate-giants/?emci=249ea3ba-b895-f111-9b33-000d3a11fa30&emdi=605a9c1f-bd95-f111-9b33-000d3a11fa30&ceid=6880951

  the list of the 50 largest employers in the states with the most-complete records of company payrolls and of workers’ forced use of SNAP and Medicaid is also rife with firms that break labor law, not just in wages, but in worker rights.

 The 11 states the GAO report covers together have a fifth of the U.S. population. This report calculated “13.8 million working Americans were forced to enroll in Medicaid and 10.6 million depended on SNAP to make ends meet and feed their families, despite working full-time — up from 12 million and 9 million, respectively, in the 2020 report.”

 “It is time for the Walton family, worth $485 billion, and Mr. Bezos, worth $257 billion, to get off of welfare and pay their workers a living wage with good benefits. No one who works for a company making billions in profits should be living in poverty,” Sen. Sanders continued his analysis.

• Walmart’s annual profits increased 50% from 2020 through the end of 2024, to $21.89 billion. It didn’t share the wealth with its workers: 16,055 workers in the 11 states had to rely on Medicaid in the states GAO sampled. That’s 55% more than in the prior report. And  15,515 workers in those states needed SNAP (food stamps) to survive. 
• Amazon’s annual profits rose 670% in that same era, to $77.67 billion. It was second to Walmart in the number of workers, 12,346 who needed food stamps and the number, 11,338, who needed Medicaid. The overall number of Amazon workers who needed one or both of those forms of federal aid tripled.
• Rideshare firms classify their drivers as “independent contractors,” which means they can’t unionize and also aren’t covered by the minimum wage and overtime pay law. In 2024, that group overtook both Amazon and Walmart in workers needing food stamps: 22,709. Their numbers were negligible five years ago. So was their share of the economy.
• Fast food firms also made the list of top employers of workers who needed food stamps and Medicaid to survive. One big problem those workers have, and the GOP Donald Trump regime and the Republican-run Congress intend to make it worse, is the workers are bounced from pillar to post in trying to exercise their rights. 

Such “joint employers” as McDonald’s headquarters in Oak Brook, Ill., and the local McDonald’s franchise holders can each blame the other for low pay and bad working conditions. McDonald’s was fourth in workers in the 11 states needing food stamps (6,709), while Burger King was ninth (2,186) and Taco Bell was 14th (1,569).

• The number of FedEx workers who needed Medicaid more than tripled in five years, from 1,046 pre-pandemic to 3,814, GAO calculated. That put FedEx—which, except for its pilots, are non-union—sixth on the list of top firms whose workers need, and get, Medicaid. It was also sixth, with 4,944 workers, on the numbers of food stamp recipients. That number doubled in five years.

 “Manufacturing had a higher total number of workers enrolled in Medicaid, but construction had a higher percentage of workers enrolled in Medicaid,” GAO reported. But neither individual factories nor construction firms made the list. The seasonal variation in construction work may account for its higher percentage.

National Totals: An estimated 13.8 million working adults were enrolled in Medicaid and 10.6 million lived in households receiving SNAP. [1, 2]

Top Corporate Employers: Major corporations continue to account for the highest counts of workers requiring public assistance, with Walmart and Amazon ranking highest. [1]

Gig Economy Surge: Workers for rideshare and delivery apps (classified as independent contractors) saw a sharp spike, overtaking traditional retail and fast-food giants in several state SNAP recipient metrics. [1, 2]

Industry Concentration: Beneficiaries are predominantly clustered in retail, food service, warehousing, and transportation

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-26-108703

 

 

Professor Nina Livesey argues Paul never existed: "the letters of Paul in the Roman literary context" new book

 

Nina E. Livesey (Ph.D. SMU, Dallas, Texas) is professor emerita of religious studies at the OU College of Professional and Continuing Studies

 Here is a summary of Professor Nina Livesey claims: 1) they [the letters of Paul] know too much. They know about the dying and rising of Jesus. They know about figures uh such as Peter, James, and John. 2) we don't have classical sources that are talking about Paul as an intellectual writer who had a way of keeping the collection if you see what I mean. 3) I thought seriously about those inter relationships, these people and events that hop between the letters and the gospel in Acts, you might say, I could no longer consider one set of writings, the seven letters of Paul, as actual correspondence, historical. 4) it's not like fictive letters are so odd. 5) this that the way it's refer to the way Paul refers to himself as the Apostle Paul. 6) this complex, of ideas around the notion of circumcision.

 professor Nina Livy and today we're just today's discussion is based on our book the letters of Paul in the Roman literary context reassessing
apostolicship.  we think that Marcion's born around 85 or 90 in Turkey, modern day
Turkey, and he died perhaps around 160. So that's Marcion, the person Marcion, according to sources.
he was wealthy and that he's associated with the shipping industry. so-called Christian writers such as Justin and Jerome say that he was a teacher and that he was widely known as a teacher. It's also thought that Marcion came to Rome in the aftermath of Bar Kokhba revolt ( took place from 132 to 135 CE) an event that is said to have even influenced his move to Rome.
importantly, he was a writer known for writing a work called the antitheses. but no copies are extent since he comes across as a bit of a oppositional figure by the victors of Christianity the so-called orthodox group one can imagine that his work was just never recopied All of those notions put him in opposition to these other Christian writers, who relied actually on the Hebrew Bible to foreshadow Christ. They relied on the prophecies in particular. but the fact that these writers such as Irenaeus and Tertullian so strongly oppose the views of Marcian, it implies, it gives a tip, you might say, of his influence.
he's known for having published what has been called the first New Testament which consisted of one gospel the called the first gospel or evangelon and that's similar to the gospel of Luke only it omits the first few chapters... There's also another work called the apostolic and that is a collection of 10
Pauline letters . Paul is in the book of Acts.
Then the letters, where's the first mention of the letters?
I can back up a little bit and say the first external evidence for the letters [of Paul] points to Marcion's Apostolic which is perhaps dated to around 140 or so of the second century. But then if we go branching out a little bit further about the mention of the Pauline letters, we do see that in first clement
another work which exhorts take up the epistle of the blessed Paul the apostle.
That letter also hints at knowing other Pauline letters, namely the 10 Pauline letters or maybe even  the canonical Pauline letters. because that letter, even though it's called first clement, is really a letter from a community in Rome to a community in Corinth. So that seems to be a a play, you might say, on
the notion that there was Romans and there was Corinthians, if you see what I mean.

 Second Peter also has evidence provides evidence of Pauline letters at 3:16.
And another thing that you might think about as far as evidence of Pauline letters, although
it's not explicit mention, are the pastorals, which is first and second Timothy and Titus.
You can think of those as a collection in and of themselves, three letters, but they also
um implicitly suggest that there were these other letters Pauline letters and they  you might say copycat of those Pauline letters that's already known in the Pauline scholarship.
for the letters thought to have been written, which is the standard view around the middle
of the first century, let's say 50s to 60s of the first century, they know too much. They know about the dying and rising of Jesus.
They know about figures uh such as Peter, James, and John.
They are aware of apostles and of Christian disciples in Jerusalem. And this information, that stuff, I argue comes from written Christian sources. And recent scholarship would place those sources in the early part of the second century or, you know, some views the late first century. But in any event after the 50/60 date of the in the standard dating of the Pauline letters the actual letters of 50 and 60 if you know what I mean.
As for external evidence on more problems, the letters in my research are only known to as a collected work together and at a relatively late date. So collection first. Okay. So if they were actual letters and I do talk about this in the book sent to various communities in diverse cities or regions as the standard view assumes then you have a problem with how to gather those letters into a collection.
You'd have to somebody would have had to known where those communities are that
there were these different letters. How would anyone know there was a letter to Rome, a letter to Corinth, two letters to Corinth, letters to Thessalonica?
Somebody would have had to have known all of that which is already um a push, a
conceptual push it seems to me. To collect those letters. One reasonable solution to that 
logistical problem it seems to me big logistical problem is to say that a person Paul
made copies of those letters. There you have a person Paul he wrote letters to these
communities but he kept a copy. So there you can say well Paul had the collection right and that makes logical and logistical sense.
However we have no evidence that the person Paul kept the letters even though that seems like a reasonable solution to the collection problem.
One would also, it seems to me, have to imagine or know, not imagine, but know
and have evidence of Paul as a figure in history, sort of like a Philo figure. you have his works and it's not just letters. There's there were other works by Philo. And Philo known from other sources. Philo was a known figure.
but we don't have that for this figure Paul. we don't have classical sources that are talking about Paul as an intellectual writer who had a way of keeping the collection if you see what I mean. Those seem to be problems and not small
ones for the standard view of those authentic letters. But what is
clear is I noticed after writing a second book, Galatians and the rhetoric
of crisis, ....the letters especially Galatians while I focused on Galatians was highly rhetorical constructed strategic you might say  the letter had a theological agenda. So already I'm starting to question that this is a genuine or even an ordinary letter. there's special kind of letter you might say doctrinal letters
Another thing that plays in here is I started to notice and pay more attention and find more significance in the fact that there are these maybe you can even say strategic inter relationships between Pauline letters and um other biblical literature the gospels and acts.
Once I thought seriously about those inter relationships, these people and events that hop between the letters and the gospel in Acts, you might say, I could no longer consider one set of writings, the seven letters of Paul, as actual correspondence, historical .  and the gospel in Acts as literary works.
...and finally adding to this, it's not like fictive letters are so odd. They really were used and they were known. So I could get over that hurdle that it wasn't a real letter, that these weren't real letters because there are other fictive letters.
And one such example is the epistle of Jeremiah that shows up in some Bibles,
not in the Protestant Bibles, but in Catholic Bibles. You have a standalone letter there. It's a fictive letter from a prophet Jeremiah. What internal clues exist within the Pauline epistles for dating them after 70 CE?
the letters assume uh the bases of the Christ narrative namely that Christ died and rose from the dead. So in my view that narrative, that central Christian message you might say is developed first in a gospel, whatever that gospel you might think that gospel is. and many scholars or most scholars would now date whichever first gospel you might consider as the first gospel as a post70 writing. So already we've gotten to 70 just with from that Galatians uh going a little further beyond 70 here I think Galatians knows of events in Acts  at the very least there's compatibility between Galatians and Acts in terms of the reference of Paul having an earlier life in Judaism and persecuting the Christ followers.
Galatians knows that there were disciples in Jerusalem all  narrated in Acts and that circumcision was an issue that too is mentioned in Acts.  the letters also and I think this is important too.
They know about the notion of an apostle and that is something that we see in in
the gospels but also in acts acts of the apostles right  in the letters Paul is
exclusively apostle Paul and it seems to me  and I think I would be followed on this that the way it's refer to the way Paul refers to himself as the Apostle Paul.
It's said in such a way that the audience is to assume what the heck that means. Apostle Paul. What does it mean to be an apostle? In other words, that word apostle already carries some weight in the context of this these works. It's already known. I don't think  that notion first appears in other works in the letters which is what you'd have to assume in that standard view. I think from where the letters are just assuming that the audience knows Paul is significant because he's an apostle.
And what is an apostle? Well, that's defined in the gospels. That's defined in Acts. And Paul calls himself divinely appointed as an apostle. But if there's just shorthand there uh short
references. So, you've got to have a smart audience to know what the heck that is. And I
think we have been assuming that all along. Readers of those letters know that. But
where does it come from? And I think it comes from these other works, these later works.
What internal clues exist within the Pauline epistles to date them after the Bar Kokhba revolt ?
Okay, so now we're pushing a little later. so in the book, and I still think push the letters later into the second century after Bar Kokhba even, concerns this complex, of ideas around the notion of circumcision. That is one of the clues.
Circumcision, my first book was on circumcision.
parallels ...the negative connotation in Paul finds uh natural organic you might say parallels in the mid century and not earlier.
Justin's dialogue something that I also looked at earlier you see very negative of circumcision um instead of a sign of the covenant between the Jewish people and Abraham and God major sign of a Jew in Judaism.
You see in Justin, Christian Justin in the mid-second century that circumcision for Jews he says is a
sign of your suffering. Why? Because you revolted and now look at you. You got nothing. So
that's in Justin's dialogue.
So another text is the epistle of Barnabas. It's addressed to those in the Lord. and Barnabas or Epistle of Barnabas the author there finds that or says that circumcision of the flesh is to be abolished. So similar complex of ideas you might say.
Barnabas also contends that the real circumcision or the important circumcision is of the heart
again diminishing that physical circumcision or circumcision of the flesh. And Barnabas
also reports there's many things but a third one here is that while Abraham is the father of the nations
it wasn't because he became circumcised he believed in God before he was circumcised.
So you see some of that paralleled in all direct parallels, but in the Pauline letters, you see Abraham was not made just by the works of the law, namely circumcision.
That's in Romans 4. In Galatians 2:3, and here's another just hint or just a statement, but you
wonder why it's put in there. It must and I think because it's important. it was an issue. Paul
insists that Titus wasn't made to be circumcised. And in Galatians 5:6, you see that circumcision
is not important. And then you see this allegory in Galatians 4 to at the end of Galatians 4
which puts the law and slavery on equal sides of an equation and makes circumcision and the practice of Jewish law equal to a state of slavery. So even though those discussions are a not exact parallel statements you might say they all have their own way of saying circumcision no more circumcision not
important especially for those in Christ but even for Jews they're the circumcision they are diminishing it for Jews as well we don't see these discussions earlier than Bar Kokhba and I will say the book of Acts does I believe begin the discussion of the non-necessity of circumcision there's an official
letter about that in Acts that seems uh kind of neutral or even lame by comparison to the what I
think are later works the dialogue and Barnabas and even the letters which strengthen the antagonism
or the disinterest you might say dislike maybe a better word of the of physical circumcision.
Barnabas and Justin assume a Christian perspective and alternate evaluations of salvation.
They all revolve around being in Christ or having faith in Christ, not in the Jewish law.
And one more thing that might parallel Barnabas and Pauline letters you see in the epistle of Barnabas statements like the present age is evil. He also deploys allegorical interpretations of scripture and exhorts the audience to be spiritual people. So there's some other parallels there with Pauline literature.
Did Paul exist?
I think Paul is not an actual person. I think Paul is a biblical character invented by the author of Acts. or maybe there are several authors of Acts, but that's where he shows up for the first time. And after that, of course, he takes on various afterlives, but he's a hero in Acts. he starts out as a
Jewish figure, Saul, and this is all for literary purposes, a Jewish figure.
when he starts his missionary activity he becomes his name changes to Paul or Paulus
put a finer point on that which is a Roman name before that it's Saules which is a Jewish
name so there's a play on the name of the character too assuming Paul was invented did
Marcian or did the other person that wrote Acts credo before Marion. So the other another
subsidiary question to this is did Marciano know Acts?
I think Marcian must have known Acts. I don't know that Marcian liked acts
because Mar Oh, well let me get back to answering your question. I don't think Marcian
developed the character Paul. I think he pulled the character Paul from Acts. So then to answer your question, he must have known something about Acts, but he used that character,
strengthening that character, taking him to where he wanted that character to go,
making him much more an apostle, um, and making him more dualistic in his view, anti-
law, anti-circumcision.
So he strengthened the Paul figure over the Acts figure of Paul. The tradition or most of the scholarship would reverse that of course because they would say the letters are early. So you have a more radical person in the first century and then acts tonesdown the radicality of the Pauline character. You've probably heard that.
I think you have to have a character first and I think the letters strengthen that character even as and I do agree with Marcus Vincent and others who see a difference between the canonical writing, the canonical Pauline letters and the Marcianite Pauline letters where you yet then in the canonical
a more Jewish facing Paul not such a radical Paul where there is more compatibility with Acts but I think that I see this situation slightly differently I believe than he does so there's some more interchange there that first step I'm pretty
sure we disagree on that I see Acts first, then the Marcianite letters, and then the canonical Pauline letters.
that definitely explains it. and for my final question,
what do you think was the likely purpose for creating Pauline Epistles?
I think they're teachings and I think it was very convenient for a figure such as Marcion or Marcion school to take a character already known character and make him the authoritative teacher a divinely appointed apostle.
already the hero of one narrative and let him dispense the teachings. So there It was a clever move I think to use or reuse that character Paul for Marcion teachings