Primitive Dwellings Versus Primitive Structures: A Void in Zoning Rules! Informal temporary Domicile but not a Dwelling Unit yet it IS a "dwelling site"?

OK so literally the ONLY difference between a "primitive structure" (no permit necessary) and a "primitive dwelling" is the amount of TIME spent - "Occasional" is "primitive structure" and "temporary or seasonal" is "primitive dwelling."

 

 https://www.co.todd.mn.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Primitive-Dwelling-Certification-2020.pdf

So one county in Minnesota has a "Primitive Dwelling Certification" and we can see it is based on the sanitation and plumbing dwelling standards.

 

 

 So based on these standards I have a "primitive dwelling."

But that's a different county. So now let's expose that the counties in Minnesota DISAGREE about this Primitive Standard!

So in my county then the "planners" ignore the "primitive" standard since it is really defined by the SANITATION department - waste treatment - and NOT the zoning/planning department. But its main definition is based on volume of waste and also the size of the property - and what the soil condition is.

So instead we are told that a permit is NOT needed for a "dwelling site" when that "dwelling" is a temporary structure as a tent or RV (including trailer camper). So the phrase "temporary structure" leads a person to believe it COULD be an actual "structure" since traditionally any structure without a permanent foundation was considered "temporary."

So it is not until I encountered the phrase "Camp Unit" (instead of "Dwelling Unit") was this distinction finally clarified. So a Dwelling SITE can have a CAMP UNIT and still be a DWELLING but not a DWELLING UNIT.

Confusion? Yes but then I discovered some images to help clarify - and the images are from the FEDS.

So this is precisely what is allowed, in my county, to NOT have a permit and allowed to be used for SEASONAL camping without a permit - up to six months a year.

So then a "Primitive Dwelling" in contrast is NOT a "Dwelling UNIT" and yet it DOES require a permit as a "Dwelling." Whereas a "Camp Unit" is ALSO A DWELLING but does NOT require a permit. So the word "Dwelling" is ambiguous" since it's still a Dwelling Site but not a Dwelling Unit. So it's a Camp UNIT but a dwelling site.

Now...this is where time is the main factor. If ANY kind of structure is used on more than an occasional basis (up to 14 days a year) then it requires a permit as a Dwelling Structure (for temporary or seasonal use).

But again because the counties disagree on what constitutes a "Primitive Dwelling" due to soil conditions and the size of the property and the amount of sanitation waste created - then SOME  counties (not just in Minnesota) have a "primitive dwelling certificate" or "affidavit" that then BYPASSES the need for a Permit (and thus the need for a sanitation permit as well).

So I already gave one example in Minnesota - that has this "primitive dwelling" exception.

So then it's only the NATIONAL FOREST "planning" for Minnesota that recognizes this "primitive dwelling" EXCEPTION but NOT the County itself!!

So for my zoning of land use the National Forest Plan states that the county allows this:

 

So "primitive dwellings" are given special mention. But you do NOT find this special mention in any of the actual county planning documents - except in the Sanitation document.

So that is in the ROUGH DRAFT.

But in the final copy the "primitive" must be transferred from previous ownership!

hand-carried means "primitive" yet the word "primitive" is NO LONGER in the final version! And just as with Wisconsin - any NEW land permit MUST have a "subsurface" treatment permit - even if it is just "hand carry" graywater (aka  primitive) - UNLESS it is "transferred" from a previous owner that did not have the SSTS due to being primitive....

So here they are assuming that the composting toilet is IN a privy and a privy is then a subsurface permit!

And then it states this (again no mention of the word "primitive" anymore!)

But if we read that statute?

BOOM or whatever the term is - BACK to the word Primitive (now hidden in the STATE statute!).

OK now let's look at Wisconsin - the neighboring state - they also passed a new primitive certification that does NOT need a Permit! What does it say?

https://dsps.wi.gov/Documents/Programs/UDC/PrimitiveRuralHuntingCabin.pdf

So it says ONLY if a "new" structure is REPLACING one built before 1998.

So we can see this "primitive dwelling" concept has been phased out...It's technically NOT a DWELLING even though a "campsite" using a tent is also a dwelling!

Wisconsin Statutes § 101.61 (2017) — Definitions. - Justia Law

law.justia.com › wisconsin › chapter-101 › section-101

“Dwelling” and “dwelling unit” do not include a primitive rural hunting cabin.

 You can still HAVE one in Minnesota only just as Wisconsin - it can only be of limited TEMPORARY use - Seasonal at most (so half of the year)....and yet it can not be a "residence" - the address can not be used for taxes, etc. It can NOT be a "primary" address.

So now we have THREE designations that are similar yet separate

1) a Camp Unit that IS a Dwelling Site and so is also a Dwelling

2) A primitive dwelling (that's NOT a Dwelling Unit but IS a Dwelling Site).

3) Occasional Primitive use as a temporary Shelter of a NON-dwelling structure.

So this third category is not mentioned directly in Zoning and yet it does exist.

So "occasional" means LESS than 14 days a year.

So that is less than temporary or seasonal.

Occasional does NOT mean an "occupied" residence as a dwelling.

So the designation RURAL VACANT means that "occasional" camping is allowed - and the structures can be used but only as "incidental" (which means NOT based on their primary purpose).

So now we can begin to see how these three different designations can possibly overlap a bit.

Let's look at some other examples.

domicile is (formal) a home or residence while dwelling is a habitation; a place or house in which a person lives; abode; domicile.

So a "primitive dwelling" can not be a residence but it can be a temporary or seasonal "informal domicile." So that is literally the ONLY example I can find that explicitly groups together the Tent and RV with the SHED as primitive structure hunting shack!

Georgia.... Ah - and it DOES state that a zoning permit IS necessary!! 

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Hunting camps must have 911 designation numbers at road entrance. Numbers must be visible from the road.

And so a dwelling is simply based on the length of time whereas a "domicile" is based on the tax status.

Similarly to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania also has a STATE "recreational hunting cabin" exception:

But it is required that such an "exception" does not enable using the address as a PLACE of EMPLOYMENT. 

So this is why "recreational structures" are not considered "temporary structures."

 https://aaronhall.com/classification-of-property-in-minnesota-minnesota-property-tax/

 A rural property that features a small, non-residential building is still classified as Class 2b Rural Vacant Land. The law defines minor, ancillary structures as sheds or other primitive structures having an aggregate size of 300 square feet or less, adding minimal value, and is not used residentially except for occasional overnight use for hunting or other outdoor activities

http://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2019/11/how-to-not-live-off-land-legally-while.htmS

So reviewing my previous blog post on this topic - there it is VERY EXPLICITLY!!

 

A "shed" OR "primitive structure" can be used for OCCASIONAL OVERNIGHT.

That is precisely what I am doing as per my tax code.

Amazing.

Spelled out in detail

https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/2020-10/Module%206%20-%20Property%20Taxation.pdf

So here is the most recent version!

 

   OK once again - it's official!

 So a "primitive structure" is NOT the same as a "primitive dwelling" - FINALLY some clarification.

 So the point being that in SOME locations (counties or states) there is an "affadvit" or "certificate" that BYPASSES needing a land use dwelling permit for a "primitive structure" (i.e. hunting cabin or hunting shack) as a DWELLING. ONLY it's explained it's not a DWELLING - so they mean not a dwelling "Unit" but rather a dwelling SITE used on seasonal basis (but NOT a residence as permanent domicile).

But then in other counties a primitive structure lived in seasonally must get a dwelling permit - for even temporary use also. Let me see this again.

https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/2011-11/acp_06_woodlands.pdf

So "occasional" means up to 14 days but this document says "several weeks" is ok.

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2019/06/void-in-rule-of-primitive-dwelling-site.html 

So that is my post - on this topic - and so I did not understand this crucial yet subtle difference between a "primitive structure" and a "primitive DWELLING" and also the "void in the rule" remains.

https://www.pca.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/wq-wwists2-35.pdf

 

 So as the MPCA told me - if there is no discharge with a composting toilet then NO permit is needed.

If no sewage permit is needed then no zoning permit is needed - because a zoning permit can ONLY be obtained by first getting a sewage permit.

https://www.pca.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/wq-wwists4-46.pdf

 

Does a primitive structure convert to a primitive dwelling only after seven months?

 

So an RV is a "dwelling site" and NOT a dwelling - same as a tent or other "temporary structure."

A "primitive structure" is also a "temporary shelter." So a non-dwelling structure (shed or primitive structure) can be USED as a "temporary shelter" on an occasional basis.

The only difference between "occasional" and seasonal is the tax code.

So that a seasonal primitive structure is NOT a "mobile home" but still an RV if not lived in for more than seven months a year. But if the structure is larger than 120 square feet and developed as a "dwelling unit" THEN it is no longer a primitive structure and "set up as a dwelling" thus requires a zoning land use permit.