Monday, November 2, 2020

Why Frost King is the BEST plastic window insulation: Twice as thick (1.5 mil) with next to no creases or krinkles - no flimsy cellophane wrinkles

 So in this installation vid Frost King is claiming to almost DOUBLE the insulation value of the window

So Frost King is TWICE AS THICK of plastic. This is obviously better insulation but just as importantly - because it's not as "flimsy" then it does not crinkle and crease as easily.

People freak out about how the window plastic "looks."

So this is the typical window plastic - AFTER I used the hair drier - there's still krinkles in it - because it's so flimsy. I didn't want to stretch it too much (i.e. shrink it).

 Even when I use a hair dryer on the thinner plastic window insulation (which is the norm for all the other brands) then it just thins out the plastic more by stretching it - and there's still stretch marks as creases.

The vid says "you can use a utility knife to help remove the backing." I'm not sure I would want to risk cutting or damaging the trim - not that I "personally" care but obviously people are basically just "renting" their houses for "market" yuppie resale value.

So instead I use a TWEEZERS to pull off the plastic. Yep kind of strange but so am I.

Now the instructions on the box say to do the top and then the bottom and THEN the sides but this dude is not following the instructions of Frost King - hilarious! He is "working his way down the sides" after doing the top. 

Once the plastic is heated above its glass transition temperature, the polymer chains are no longer locked in that high strain orientation. They relax to a low energy orientation- curled and bending in a way that shrinks the bulk material. ... This would decrease the Gibbs free energy, making it a more stable shape.

Yeah I'm just not convinced that heating the plastic is the best if it has to "curl and bend" to shrink. But whatever. Like I said - because Frost King plastic is TWICE as think then there are truly hardly any creases or krinkles.

I think the word Krinkles is much better than Wrinkles. Krinkles is an onomatopoeia for plastic wrap.

Onomatopoeia is the process of creating a word that phonetically imitates, resembles, or suggests the sound that it describes.

onomatopoeia descriptions – Sound Safari

noiseguy.com › 2012/11/01 › onomatopoeia-descriptions

Nov 1, 2012 — ... imitation of noise. But it is hard to spell onomatopoeia and even harder to describe what it is, much less… ... Krinkle to wad up cellophane.

 So this Frost King is NOT cellophane because it's not flimsy enough. It is window insulation for sure.

The other brands sell "cellophone" that krinkles. Or if you prefer:

onomatopoeia: 1. the naming of a thing or action by a vocal imitation of the sound associated with it (as buzz, hiss) 2. the use of words whose sound suggests the sense.

 So this Hip Chick says - for Frost King - installation vid

that it's best to do the window pane outside - not inside the window. But only on painted wood. The last house we didn't have painted wood and so the complaint was that the adhesive did not come off easily. This time I put the adhesive double-sided tape on the plastic frame that holds the window in. This plastic frame is I think supposed to help insulate the windows.

I don't know if this plastic frame is the "casing" or "trim" or "sealant" or "weather barrier", etc.

Ah she uses a "cuticle scissors" to cut the plastic - very sneaky - otherwise it's totally awkward to try to get a full size scissor at the right angle close enough to the tape.

I'm gonna try that for sure.

yeah she doesn't do the bottom right after the top either!

So much for following the BOX instructions. hilarious.

 Gus Goose

People actually need a how-to video for this? What's next... a video on how to blink?
Maybe one for being polite?
3

Frost King Window Heavy Duty Shrink Window Insulation Kit ...

This window insulation is the best I've ever used. The plastic sheets are twice as thick as any other I've bought in a local hardware store. The double stick tape is ...

 bring it on!

The double stick tape is twice as wide so it has less chance of coming loose. It shrinks tight as a drum and installed properly you can't even see it

 Yeah I don't care about seeing it a little - better than suspiciously changing the molecular bonds!

Heavy duty plastic that is so thick and heavy it pulls off the tape within a few days or first few weeks of putting it up. I even tried to not shrink this down so it was line free and tight, and it still pulled the tape off the trim. Never had a problem with just the regular Frost King brand.

 Well see - will it "fall off" the plastic? If the tape is twice as wide then it should be able to hold up plastic twice as thick?


 Here's Frost King with NO hair drier "shrinking" aka "stretching" - and look - no flimsy crinkles. Sure there are some folding in the plastic but who cares?

People are complaining the Frost King tape adhesive does not work. I noticed that it is possible. But Frost King says to make sure it's at least 45 Fahrenheit OUTSIDE when you put on the window insulation inside. I think that makes sense. Also to wait 15 minutes for the adhesive to dry before pulling off the double side cover on the tape. Again makes sense. I did not do that - I didn't notice that instruction on the box... but it took me so long to get the plastic double side strip off the tape that it effectively was the same as waiting 15 minutes. haha.

I used the extra heavy window coverings last fall. I accidentally bought it by mistake. So much better the the regular one strength!

 Exactly True!! It's an amazing accidental discovery!

When spring came around, this stuff peeled paint off of my painted window trim. The 3M tape did not peel any paint. Any money I saved by going with cheaper tape went to buying new paint for my window trim. Be careful!

 So that's a 2016 review - sounds like Frost King changed their adhesive since someone said they never had a problem with it not sticking but now it doesn't stick well enough. So they must have had a super strong adhesive for the double thick plastic...

AGain I am very suspicious of using the hair drier - on the adhesive...

The ideal tape application temperature range is 70°F to 100°F (21°C to 38°C).

 Yeah I think people are FRYING the glue on the tape and then the plastic falls off!!

I read one instruction for a different brand that said to put the hair dry focused ON THE ADHESIVE ON THE TAPE!! First time I had read that - on the "duck brand." That made me suspicious. I think they mean if it is cold outside then you want to heat up the glue....

People don't realize that it's all contextual - you need to understand the scientific PRINCIPLES to be able to apply to different context. Too cold or too hot - the glue won't work...

We bought this for the first time winter of 2018. Had no issues with the tape and would buy this again. However, people who have poor reviews may not have used running alcohol before applying tape.

 Oh that's a good point - you DEFINITELY need to clean the window area for the tape. I luckily have acetone brake cleaner spray. So I spray it on some paper towel or napkin in the garage - and bring that paper napkin into the house and wipe down the plastic trim where the tape will go. Without cleaning it then the tape is not going to stick.

The tape works just fine. Most of the people have tape problems because they tighten the wrap too tight,
Don’t make it like a drum. A few wrinkles are best.

EXACTLY  - this is the claim I made to a comment complaining about the tape...

 Karen Woolsey

I bought the frost king window kit.ive been. doing this to my Windows for 10+ years.i have no problems with the tape,it's the plastic,I do the process of cleaning windows,frames.when it comes to the plastic. I do as video shows them I shrink it. a day later the plastic is falling.ive redone this twice. I will definitely use. a different product next time .spent enough on this product.
Karen Woolsey I have had nothing but problems with this product. Won't ever use it again.
I think the "shrinking" part is not good for the adhesive. It forces the plastic to pull off the tape as the adhesive dries. This plastic really does not need the hair dryer since the plastic is twice as thick so has less creases and krinkles.

 Someone says they waited 30 minutes before applying the plastic - that would have DRIED the adhesive out too much!! So the double sided tape is meant to be used to apply pressure for the bond on the other side. So you want to use the other side of the tape while the tape is still drying and then you can push in the bond.

I've used this product many times and it definitely does the job of keeping the cold out and the heat in. My heating bills show a major difference and that's my main goal. This brand is better than other brands because the plastic is sturdy. Here are my complaints: First of all, when you blow dry it tight, the tape doesn't stay glued. Also, it never blow dries smooth enough, even when I know I got it up straight. So I don't bother blow drying at all anymore. I can see through it just fine and I've gotten used to seeing the wrinkles. Oh yeah, the biggest pain in the butt is getting the backing off the tape. Not good! But I'm ok with it overall because I'm toasty warm. :)

Now there's an HONEST review - just hold back on the hair drier and the tape should work ok.

So someone says they've used Frost King for 12 years and there's a "learning curve" for the tape. But if you can't get the tape to stick then just go buy a roll of 3M double stick tape.

And then someone complains - well why buy Frost King in the first place? BECAUSE the plastic is TWICE AS THICK!! that's why.

Tape pulling from corners on several windows. Did I stretch it too tight? pressing and monitoring the tape keeps it stuck.

 yeah the obsession with getting a "clear" window with plastic stretched tight - it's just gotta go. People need to get over the lie that a window is a "clear" view to the outdoors. It's a WINDOW - you're not supposed to forget it's there. haha.

I followed the directions and cleaned the surface once with cleaner and when I was ready to apply the tape I cleaned again with Alcohol. The first one was a little crooked (but still worked) but by the time I got to #4 it was smooth sailing.

I can feel them move slightly in the breeze so I know that they are keeping the cold out. I would definitely recommend this product.

Yeah people say they "clean" the area for the tape but they're not using a DEGREASER that really removes all the dust and grime. So that's why Acetone works great. 

It is important to set them up before it gets cold. You will have a better seal.

 Right so some people NEED to use the hair drier to heat up the adhesive glue. Other people probably over do the hair drier and make it too hot on the adhesive - and too taunt on the plastic.

the tape does not like to stick to cold surfaces (use that hair dryer you're going to need to shrink it once it's in place to warm the surface and the tape once in place)

 exactly.

 This product works great. Most of the problems people have are poor preparation and over stretching the plastic. ( we’re not making drum heads people)
Clean the surface you are sticking the tape to with mild soap and water. Wipe again with rubbing alcohol and you’ll be fine.

So that Hip Chick review lady probably should not be bragging about the drumming sound she makes on her window plastic. hilarious.

 After I learned to pre-heat the surface I was laying the tape on it was an easy install.

OK so that is proof that the outside temperature really does cause the tape to not adhere....

the sheets are more like 42 cm x 64 cm rather than 42"x 64"

 Ok I measured the 42 inches - they ARE 42 inches. The problem is that the window on the box with the interior trim - that type of window is clearly BIGGER than 42 inches. So it's deceptive advertising. You're not gonna have a window with an interior trim that is only 42 inches wide. 

I finally figured out a trick where I at least get the tape to sit on the window pane as I peel off the backing, then I immediately press the plastic onto the tape and it seems to stick...I’m hoping it’ll last through the winter without coming undone, but I have more windows to do, and I will be purchasing a roll of the 3M tape to use with the additional Frost King sheets. I foresee it being a lot less frustrating and done with a lot less swearing.

 So again it's probably cuz the tape adhesive got too cold next to the window.

I've seen some bad reviews for this product, mainly around the tape, but I had none of those issues. I think one reason may be that I didn't stress the tape all window by shrinking the plastic with a blow dryer. I was careful to put it up so it had no wrinkles and left it at that. It took me longer to wash the windows than it did to put up the plastic and tape. I also used alcohol to clean the places where the tape would be so no hand oils or furniture polish would interfere with it sticking. It went up easily. (I left the tape overnight before I took the paper backing off and attached the plastic, so that might be another reason it stayed up the whole winter.)

 yep.

 Even after 5 windows it is still nearly impossible to get the tape up.

Putting up the tape took me close to all hour for 2 windows. The biggest problem i had was peeling the backing off. I did not have a problem with it sticking but getting the paper off is a nightmare.

Yep - it's very difficult to get the backing off the tape. Hence the tweezers secret!

  If you do it the right way, it comes out perfectly and keeps the house so much warmer.

Don't wait too long to put it on when your window frames are already cold. It works better if you put it on just as the cold season starts.

If you just wipe the window frame with a dry cloth to get off any dust. (or moisture)

If you use a blow dryer to heat the tape just a little bit after you attach it to the window frame

If you wait 15 minutes to let the tape stick better.

If you start at the top corner and press down with your fingers a small amount of the plastic at a time, press over to the top left corner. Then press down the sides a little bit at time.

Then blow any wrinkles out with a blow dryer until the plastic is tight. Don't put the blow dryer too close to the plastic. Just about 6 inches away. Enough to make it melt slightly.

..if you do all these things and don't get in a hurry, you'll have a much warmer house.

Even if you have brand new, double pane or even triple pane windows here in Alaska - this window insulation kit is a must.

It's also great because if you have to get out of a window because of a fire or you need to open a window quickly, it's easy to tear it open and do so.

Someone else disagrees!  

Now you could argue that maybe I didn't prep the surface. However, the tape IS STUCK to the surface but not the plastic.

 Ok so the surface maybe warmer than the plastic - which would cool fast by the window. Just saying - that might be why....

The plastic fell off the tape, so it wasn't that I did something wrong with the installation.

 Well - I'll see if that happens to me. I'm not saying it won't but we have a warm spell of 60 degree weather...

OK it's only 48 Fahrenheit right now. (or 53?) So I'll wait till tomorrow to do more windows (65 expected). haha. It's just that we had the heat cranked up inside when I put them up.

..to caulk around your windows to ensure that drafts are kept to a minimum before using this product. I think there's a big misconception when people think that applying this covering is all that's needed; that's simply not true, because drafty windows will push the air through and nullify the benefits of this product.

This is another good point. I already put in caulk strip - under each window - and that definitely made a difference. But still wasn't good enough.

Make sure the 2 way tape is tight, no gaps.
Make sure you get the plastic down with no overlaps.
Put a small half inch piece of scotch tape over the curtain screw holes before you rehang the curtain rod so that the plastic doesn't tear.
I heat from the edge in to the center to get rid of corner puckers.

So another complaint: 

It pulls away when you use the hairdryer to tighten the plastic and as I sit here next to the window we just did it is pulling away with the wind.

 Yeah so again - don't use the hair drier - despite them recommending it. Why do they recommend it? Because people have a Commodity Fetish about "see through" windows as if the windows are "not really there." Get over it!!

As for the wind? Yeah you need to first use a caulk insulation to cut down on the wind.

They are between 59.5" and 60.5"

 Yes I suspected the 62 inches was not accurate.

the heat in our house has increased 15 degrees (from 39 to 58) in a matter of hours.

 I believe it!! This thick plastic is amazing.

If the directions were followed (15 minute allotment to set), this product works amazingly.

 On my vinyl windows, I made sure the window frames were clean & warm. Clean them off, come back later after giving them plenty of time to dry. Also if the room is cold, heat the surface you're applying the tape to with a heat gun or blow dryer. Now for my tip. Don't try to heat the plastic to remove the wrinkles right away. Give the tape a few days to really set and get a grip on the window frames & plastic film. Also take it easy on the shrinking. Do as little as possible. Too much tension WILL pull the plastic loose.

 Yep great advice! So the tape is finicky! Too bad - since most people are not going to think through the finicky details of what would affect the adhesive...

We had our heat cranked up to 76 degrees. haha. So I turned our heater on again since it's only 48 degrees outside. So then I'll keep it warm in here - extra warm - until it warms up tomorrow to 60 degrees outside...

the 2016 version is not what it used to be.
The mounting tape is completely worthless. It wouldn't even hold the film up. Applying heat to the film makes it pop away from the window and fall down.

 OK it is probably that people complained before about not being able to remove the adhesive easily for cleaning up...

I feel compelled to defend this product against all the negative reviews. I have used it for 3 seasons with great success. You don't even notice I have it installed unless you are right on top of the window. I do nothing other than common sense preparation work. The tape likes a nice clean, dry, & warm surface. I see in other reviews that people are complaining that the tape is not adhering to cold surfaces. Most adhesives do not prefer cold. Chances are you have your hair dryer out anyway to shrink the window film...why not heat up the edge that you want the tape adhered? I have to say, once the tape is on there it really stays stuck unless you forcibly remove it. Hopefully that helps you stay warm and save some energy!

 Werd.

 I have a feeling what you mention is one of the major mistakes people are having- they aren't warming up the sides of the windows with the hair dryer first to allow the tape to stick. That's very important, especially if you've waited until it's already really cold to put the plastic up (like right now in the beginning of December). I put my plastic up in mid November and I try to pick a warm sunny day to do it. Anyway yes, without hair dryer warmth or air temperature warmth, applying this Frost King tape is going to be very difficult.

Now someone claims Frost King changed their tape in 2010 - while someone else claimed the tape was changed in 2016!

This year, for whatever reason, Frost King totally changed the tape that comes with the kit and it sucks unbelievably bad. I cannot believe this tape even made it onto the market, that's how bad it is. Didn't anyone even test it first?

 My guess is it's more due to local weather conditions.

a lot of people reported a problem with tape and i am guessing they attempted the installation on a very cold frame or possibly one with caulk on it. the contact surface should be clean and using a blow dryer to warm up the tape after application helps too. i'm happy with this product.

 yes.

Ah customer service suggested using scotch tape to SEPARATE the double sided tape - oh great idea.

 The two-sided tape used to attach the plastic to the window frame is alarmingly weak, perhaps to appease consumer fears of damaging the paint or finish of the window frame. Fair enough, but this makes the tape too weak to even do the job it's supposed to do. Also, the paper protecting one side of the two-sided tape is annoying difficult to remove. After waiting the prescribed amount of time, I was generally unable to keep the tape stuck to the surfaces of my window panes, even though the panes' material is listed as eligible for use with this product.
Upon finally sticking the plastic to the tape around the windows and shrinking the plastic, with a hair dryer as directed, the tape failed on three of my five windows, completely eliminating the potential "insulation" promised by this product.

 Ah so 2016 WAS a big change for Frost King:

This year (Fall of 2016) they came with a thicker plastic and a wider tape. Hate em'. would like to get the older packs back. The plastic on a majority of my windows came off of that tape within a few weeks. I wound up using packing tape all around to seal the plastic again. The older thinner plastic and narrower tape worked much better!!! Not happy at all with this upgrade

 Sure enough - the wider tape WAS for the thicker plastic - just as I had guessed...

I'm kind of surprised at how dramatic these reviews are but it is definitely difficult to separate the tape from the backing.

As I hair-dried the plastic to the tape, the tape curled up and pulled away from the window.

 There you go!! PROOF that too much heat destroys the adhesive - just as I suspected!

The backing adheres very tightly to the tape, and there's no perforations or aids to help separate it. Terrible product.

 Tweezers, Scotch tape, or a "blade"?

I had an 8-10 degree F raise in temp as measured by a digital thermometer near the windows. Stopped the draftiness. I'm pleased.

 wow!!

 They were supposed to be 62" long, but were only 60" in the kit

 This I believe.

I found that the first window I did had poor tape adhesion. However, I did a quick damp towel, followed by dry towel wipe of the areas I'd be applying to on the subsequent windows and had no problems. I keep a clean house, but there was just enough dust around the edges from a summer of open windows to compromise the tape's integrity.

Yep - it has to be STERILE LAB clean.

 To get the tape to stick better, go over the tape with a hair dryer on high, and press down with a finger or thumb (with a cloth over it to avoid the heat) right behind the dryer. I think this partially melts the glue; then it sticks better as it resets already in contact with the surfaces. I do this after applying the tape with the backing still on, and then again after sticking the plastic sheet to the tape. That might be overkill and only doing it at the end might be enough, but I do it both times and have never had a problem with it not sticking.

 Yeah if it's cold outside - then that's the ticket.

The product that is designed to make a COLD and drafty window warmer doesn't stick to cold window sills. This product is JUNK.

No you need to apply it BEFORE the cold kicks in.

 I can totally understand the frustration. I have used this product on one type of window and it works perfectly and on other types of surfaces only to see it peel itself off in a day or two. It really depends on what the sill and frame is made of.

 So I guess I got luck by using plastic as the surface. It seems to not work well on metal nor wood?

I'm finding this fascinating. I'm going to read the reviews on the other Frost King window insulation products... Let's see if I can zero down what the real issue is... 

As said, careful installation is key to good results.

Wipe off window trim with damp cloth that the double sided tape will be sealed to. Let the trim dry before applying tape. Apply tape to window trim, leaving backing on the one side of the tape. Heat tape with hair dryer and lightly press with fingers to seal tape to window trim. Repeat this step for good seal of tape to window trim. Then remove the backing from the tape.
Cut the sheet about 4-6 inches larger than the window opening, both vertical and horizontal. Install sheet starting at the top then the bottom, tack in place only using finger pressure. Now starting at the top, heat the sheet and as you go along apply finger pressure to seal sheet to the tape. Repeat this heat and pressure as required for good seal. Now loosen the bottom end of the sheet, stretch out biggest wrinkles and retack with finger pressure.
Next apply heat followed by finger pressure all the way down one side. Stretch out wrinkles and seal the other side. Leave the sheet slightly loose fitting over the window, not skin tight. Now stretch and seal the bottom of the sheet to the trim. Last heat the sheet over the window itself using medium heat to smooth out some of the wrinkles to slightly tighten the sheet over the window. We do not try to remove all the wrinkles. With a good seal, the wind will cause the plastic sheet to billow like the sail of a ship. You can definitely feel the room warm up after sealing the windows. We even seal the inside of the front door, which faces the prevailing wind.

I highly recommend this product.

 

Exactly what it is- I used this to make a tarp!

 someone else made a tent "foot print" out of it! amazing.

I know from past experience that the tape they give you won't stick very well to window frames when they're really cold. Warm them up a little with hair dryer or heat gun first (don't try to do four sides at once, do one at a time, heating then sticking) and the double-stick tape works a lot better. BUT the tape in this particular kit seemed to be kinda old, which certainly won't help matters.

 *** Most Important Step*** After you stick the tape to the window frame with the backing still on use the back of the scissor or any hard plastic/metal object (channel locks for ex) and rub the tape into the frame vigorously (again dont go nuts, just press a little). This is a trick I learned from packing tape - it removes all of the bubbles and makes the tape stick!!
4) When you peel the backing off you can see where you rubbed by the difference in color.

That's true!

 ) Another important part: Use the hair drier to melt the plastic into the tape, don't be shy it hasn't melted on me yet. you can actually hear the thing melting and sticking.

 . But AT THE BEGINNING, BEFORE YOU START adhering the tape to the surface, BEGIN TO SEPARATE THE TWO LAYERS by folding down an edge so you have a little handle and can pull the top layer off easily once you're ready to do so.

Believe me, this will be MUCH EASIER when you're not stretching to reach the corner and in danger of pulling the whole thing back off the frame!

 

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