back in High School (25 years ago shhhh) My Auto Shop said something that has stuck with me to this day.
He said "$200 more Nickle, smelted into a vehicle's steel, and there would be no more thing called Rust"
They are designed to Rust, rememwber the vehicles of 1975? They rusted out in 2-3 years. For maybe $400 today, rust would be a thing of the past.Video expose of the GM undercoating undercarriage rust conspiracy So I'm looking into getting a frame repair on the hole - and first I discover that lots of people get welding plate frame repairs for holes in the frames of Trailblazers or similar GM Chevy models...
I'd almost prefer if the factory wax fell off though. That stuff causes more corrosion than it prevents. With the poor adhesion, the factory wax pulls salty water in between the frame and itself. That's why all the guys with rust problems have rust forming at the edges of various surfaces of the frame. I'm worried about what the frame looks like on the inside of the rails. There could be HUGE patches of wax that have peeled off.Then I find this:
GM uses this garbage nox rust crap and most of thier frames are rusting out. go look at any silverado in the dealership lot and you will see what i mean. brand new truck frames rusting. what a joke
GM undercarriage corrosion
I own a 2005 Silverado 2500 and live in coastal FL. It started exhibiting severe corrosion throughout the undercarriage within a year. GM refused to cover under the warranty and I sued. Case goes to court in three weeks, and I believe there may be tens of thousands of others who may be able to benefit from and/or join in my action.
I have deposed the top corrosion engineer from GM, the one who designed the spec for the wax undercoating for the Silverado. I also deposed the Southeast regional manager who has final say on warranty claims for the region. They had some very interesting things to say about GM corrosion protection and the warranty.
First, they claim that the warranty does not cover undercarriage corrosion. This is false. The warranty is three year bumper to bumper and makes no exclusion for the undercarriage. It does have an exclusion for corrosion caused by extraordinary environmental events such as hail, lightning, flooding, and airborne fallout. If you live in a coastal area, GM will tell you that your vehicle is not covered because of the airborne fallout exclusion. They consider salt in the air and even water in the air to be airborne fallout, even though it's not stated in the warranty. If you live in the snow belt, they'll tell you that you are not covered because of road salt (not stated in the warranty). Interestingly, GM added specific exclusions for sea air and road salt to its 2007 warranty. They clearly knew they were vulnerable here.
The GM engineer testified that the wax undercoating is only designed to last one year, and that it provides cosmetic protection only. After a year, if you live in a coastal or snow belt area (what they describe as one of the 95th percentile areas), they expect the undercoating to flake off and the undercarriage to begin corroding. Such corrosion is just cosmetic they say, and not sufficient to degrade the functionality of the vehicle, though they didn't say for how long.
GM will try to tell you that the corrosion warranty only applies to the sheet metal. It's not true. The undercarriage is not excluded from the bumper to bumper coverage.
Note that the warranty says that undercoating is not needed, and in fact, will void your warranty. So even if you want to protect your vehicle with some extra protection, you're out of luck.
My view is that anyone with severe undercarriage corrosion is entitled to a replacement vehicle.
If I prevail in my lawsuit, I think there will be a flood of similar lawsuits and GM will ultimately be held accountable.
Please drop me a line and with the specifics of your corrosion problem.So then I look up the lawsuit results...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/industry-news/gm-avoids-massive-recall-as-safety-agency-warns-owners-in-snowy-climates-to-wash-cars/article23875708/
Canadian News!?
The message came Wednesday from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which closed a five-year investigation into rusting pipes that carry brake fluid in about 5 million older Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC pickups and SUVs, without seeking a recall.
Instead, the agency blamed the problem on rust caused by road salt and a lack of washing. It determined that it was not the result of a manufacturing or design defect.The agency urged people in 20 cold-weather states and Washington, D.C., to get their car and truck undercarriages washed several times during and after the winter, and to get their brake lines inspected for rust and replace them if necessary.
it received 3,645 complaints of brake pipe rust in the General Motors vehicles from the 1999 to 2007 model years, including 107 crash reports and 40 reports of injuries. Seventy-five per cent of the complaints came from trucks in the first four model years covered by the investigation, 1999-2003, the agency said.
NHTSA's car-wash advisory applies mainly to owners of vehicles from the 2007 model year or older in Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin and the District of Columbia.Amazing! First I heard of this!!
OK it was published as the SAME Press Release in half a dozen papers - but not in the upper midwest?
OH it was on the TV news locally in 2015. ... dang...
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2015/04/09/nhtsa-closes-probe-gm-trucks-suvs/25497251/
In 2010, NHTSA opened an investigation into 1.77 million 1999-2003 Chevrolet Avalanche, Chevrolet Silverado, Chevrolet Suburban, GMC Sierra, GMC Tahoe and GMC Yukon vehicles in states — including Michigan — where road salt is used in winter. The investigation was upgraded to an engineering analysis in January 2011.Last year, the president of a Virginia advocacy group called on GM to recall 6 million older SUVs and pickup trucks for braking problems stemming from brake-line rust. "These 6 million pickups and SUVs endanger the lives and safety of their owners due to a loss of braking related to brake-line corrosion," Peter Flaherty, president of the National Legal and Policy Center, said last year.
General Motors Reportedly Resisting NHTSA Push To Recall Full-Size Trucks
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/07/general-motors-reportedly-resisting-nhtsa-push-to-recall-full-size-trucks/
the company is resisting recalling full-size trucks and SUVs from 1999 to 2003 for reported brake failure, writes the New York Times.https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/08/automobiles/gm-resists-recalling-trucks-over-brake-line-problem.html?_r=1
Approximately 1.8-million trucks could be affected. The vehicles in question suffer from brake lines that could corrode and lead to brake failure. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received over 1,000 complaints related to the issue and began looking into it in 2010.
General Motors for its part says the issue is related to routine maintenance, telling the Times that “Brake line wear on vehicles is a maintenance issue that affects the auto industry, not just General Motors.”
Furthermore, General Motors said that “the vehicles have dual brake lines, so ‘the affected vehicle would be capable of stopping.'”
The corroded GM brake lines generated 3,049 complaints, according to documents released by NHTSA. The agency said 2,702 of those were in states where salt is often used and happened more frequently in states that don't require vehicle inspection.
The GM trucks have steel brake lines that owners contended are so rust-prone they fail without notice, spilling brake fluid. The lost fluid means a sudden, sometimes catastrophic loss of braking power, the owners said in complaints.https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/9900/chevrolet/silverado-1500/chevy-silverado-and-gmc-sierra-undercarriage-rust/p3
Garage was afraid to put it on the lift because it was so badly rusted. I've very disappointed and it should not happen to a vehicle with this few a miles. Heck we see 20 year old vehicles that don't have this much rust. Vechicle is unsafe to drive. We don't have 30k, 20k or even 10k to spend on another vehicle. Will GM help us in anyway?
I have filed a complaint with the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration.
The rust on the undercarriage of my brand new Silverado started in about a month, and the truck was a rust bucket in two years. If you read the posts on this thread, you will see a common theme. The rust starts early, is very aggressive, and attacks only the undercarriage. I have had non-GM vehicles used under the same conditions in the same area with zero rust after ten years.
Guess what? They did not paint the frame. Let me repeat that: they did not paint the frame. Water and salt is burrowing through the undercoating and attacking the naked metal.
The frame is well rusted, the brake calipers are well rusted. The differential and axel is well rusted. Last year, I replaced the brake rotors all around because they rusted out – before the original brakes were worn. The shocks are unrecognizable, but still manage to work. I’ll be replacing them. The brake lines had a level of corrosion I was able to knock off, and will be putting a sealer on.
The bottom line is, they skipped the painting part and went for an undercoating instead. As I walk through parking lots, and look under trucks, I see well protected painted and undercoated undersides. They're not GM or Chevys. I see aged Dodge Rams that are painted, without undercoating, and they still look reasonable. That's because they were painted. I look under CM and Chevys and all I see is rust. Now, I know Chevy doesn't warranty the elements. My question is when did they start, and how long did it go on, when they decided not to paint the frame and underside?
Basically, they rely on the bulk of the metal to keep the frame intact for the life of the vehicle.Feds end GM brake-line rust probe, advise owners to wash underneath their cars and trucks
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/feds-end-gm-brake-line-rust-probe-advise-owners-to-wash-underneath-their-cars-and-trucks-040915.html
This is obviously more than just a brake line rust issue. I'm pretty sure we've had our brake lines replaced but I will double check the records...http://gmrustbuckets.blogspot.com/
Wow someone even made a blog about this expose!
https://sites.google.com/site/gmbadbrakes/
Another one!
Your GM vehicle suddenly decides NOT to stop? Brake pedal unexpectedly goes to the floor at 60 MPH! Then you need to read this before it happens to you.
The metal brake lines in GM vehicles, car or truck, are prone to rapid rusting and when they get thin enough, they will either leak slowly or suddenly, and without warning, burst. The latter puts you and your family in grave risk. Just imagine this situation if you are carrying a heavy load or towing.
We are not talking about super high mileage or very old vehicles, this is occurring on GM vehicles as young as 3 years old with less than 40,000 miles on the clock. This problem is especially severe in the snow belt states and Canada where salt is used in the winter.
Just google rust and chevy truck and youll get enough hits to enter into a recall.gmrustbucket Posts: 8
If you have one of the bad ones it's a losing battle. Don't listen to anyone telling you it's an area or salt on the road crap. I was speaking to someone recently about this issue and snapped a few pics of a NEW one on the sales floor that already has this starting and had less than 20 miles on it.. Not all of them have this problem so it must be a manufacturing issue. http://photobucket.com/chevyrust
Good Luck and try to keep rust off.
From what I have found out the problem is a combination of poor metal used ( cheaper ) and poor design. The way the frame was designed water pools in the frame area. There was a recall investigation, but since the US government bailed out GM I doubt that will ever go anywhere.
My theory is that there is something in the design that is creating an electrolysis or electrical circuit (cathode/anode) effect and accelerating corrosion of all the undercarriage metals. Could be poor grounding, or perhaps substandard metals in the frame. It's not just the frames. Something is causing the corrosion to spread to other components throughout the undercarriage. I have seen this on many fairly new vehicles, including those that have been garaged.
frame failure is usually catastrophic.
When dissimilar metals such as aluminum and steel come into contact, they contaminate each other and begin the rusting process.
It is important that auto body shops isolate vehicles that have different types of metal and never use the same tools on dissimilar metals.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10169340-9999.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10154649-9999.pdf
Wow - so the 2019-2020 Chevy Trucks are finally being covered under warranty for UnderCarriage Rust!! Amazing!!
Chevrolet TSB #PIT-3749D
2004 Chevrolet Trailblazer
https://m.carcomplaints.com/Chevrolet/Trailblazer/2004/tsbs/tsb-pit-3749d.shtml
Chevrolet TSB #PIT-3749D
2004 Chevrolet Trailblazer
Affected Component: STRUCTURE:FRAME AND MEMBERS
- Summary
- GM: ON SOME TRUCK MODELS THERE IS SOME FRAME CORROSION. *RM UPDATED ON 5/2/2012. *KB
Ahhhh So it's NOT covered by warranty - they're simply warning their dealers that people are complaining of the rust and how to fix it....
Wpw 681 Service Technical Bulletins for the 2004 Trailblazer!!
Wax dipped frames where the coating comes right off an the frame rots and fast. Everyone else paints their frames.just amazing.
And they wonder why Ford has been outselling Chevrolet and GMC trucks combined over the last several years? Because people have been catching on. Even Dodge and Toyota have seen huge gains on Chevrolet.
A cheap money saving black colored wax that comes off when you put the truck on a lift, like General Motors coats the undercarriage with, is not sufficient enough to prevent rust for any period of time longer than your first oil change. I have worked in the paint coatings industry for 25 years, and it is a fact that a properly prepared piece of structural steel that is coated with an adequate finish will stop the oxidation process.
Could GM combat rust better? Yes $400-500 more Nickel smelted in thier melt, rust would be a thing of the past.
Why don't they? Hinders sales of new vehicles, increases vehicle's price by $600-700.
oops! Not Chevy!
Ziebart was a big name in rust proofing, but after 1976 cars had to have a rust warranty. This made additional undercoating unnecessary.
WHEN I PURCHASED MY 2003 GM TRUCK, I ASKED ABOUT HAVING RUST PROOFING FOR THE TRUCK. THE GM DEALER SAID IF I HAD IT RUST PROOFED IT WOULD VOID MY WARRANTY. WISH I HAD. THIS CRAP WITH THE BREAK LINES AND UNDERCARRIAGE RUSTING OUT AND FAILING IS UNACCEPTABLE.
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