That said though, I know a number of people who are seasonally homeless intentionally and live in the woods moving to a different dispersed campsite every few weeks. I also know a number of low income subsistence farmers. It is possible to choose rural poverty over urban poverty. I know which one I would choose/have chosen.
In most places throughout the USA, it is illegal to camp on your own land for more than 2 weeks [at a time.]
https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-homeless-poor-people-just-live-off-of-the-land
Living off the land sounds like a great idea, but where I live, it can earn you a fat ticket for illegal camping.
had concerning the uses of native plants. Farming and setting up a more permanent structure (a.k.a. a shelter) is out of the question; you'll have authorities breathing down your back by daybreak. Again, all of this is illegal. Even the foraging part. And for good reason; would you want an entire society of homeless people occupying the national forest or the trail behind your local park?
Typically the smallest self sustaining small holding requires lots of ‘specialist’ knowledge and at least 1/4 acre of land if not more. The land costs money that poor/homeless people don’t have and don’t have the money for tools and starter crops and animals
If you had land you probably wouldn't be homeless. But let's say not so little homeless Andrew here inherits a plot of land. Can I build a house on it myself? Not in most places I can't unless I have alot of money. But if you have the skills and tools and are homeless and dying for that mountain man like experience I would recommend heading to a large national forest and charging your campsites regularly (STAY AWAY FROM PEOPLE!) And only take from nature as much as you need. Don't be obvious about what you're doing. But your average homeless person has little to no skills in the realm of wilderness survival. So that plan just wouldn't work for most.
https://www.quora.com/Why-arent-the-homeless-poor-people-given-land-that-they-can-farm-and-live-off-of
Just sending people out into some remote area and telling them to ‘live off the land’ is a modern day myth born out of actual American history. My great grandparents were homesteaders. They moved to northern Minnesota when the government was giving away land in a bid to ‘settle’ (take over) the region and move the Native Populations further west.
While the government’s part in this bit of history was horrendous (Please see: Native American History) the life my great grandparents lived was far from easy. The stories handed down from my Great Grandparents Venne:
- They were to poor to build a house, so they built a chicken coop and lived in it, with their animals, for 4 years.
- They were to poor to buy a horse, much less a cart, so my great grandfather would walk 10 miles into town, buy a 100 lb bag of seed, and walk back to the farm with it on his back!
- My great grandmother had 13 kids, on the farm, without anything remotely close to modern medical care. One of them died from pneumonia (Dora, my namesake…at least, that’s what some family members claim, while others insist my name was sheer fabrication. Families! Gotta love ‘em.)
- The house they finally built was the house they both lived in for the rest of their lives. No selling the property and ‘moving up.’ They built the place with their own hands and they stayed there. Period.
Formerly homeless man booted off his own, newly purchased mountain property
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/homeless-man-being-booted-off-his-own-newly-purchased-mountain-propertyThe complaint alleges that he's allowing the outdoor storage of those items on vacant land and that he was going to allow people to live in the shipping container.
Smith said that's hogwash.
"I believe the person that complained came in (the shipping container) and saw a dresser and thought people were going to try to live here," he said.
Smith said, in reality, the dresser is his "workbench" and he uses it to store tools and paperwork.
Jeanie Rossillon, Jefferson County's director of development and transportation, said that under existing code, the RV is considered an accessory and cannot be parked on the property without a house. Ditto for the shipping container.
In Douglas County, a "temporary residence" (temporary structure) is allowed in certain districts. The temporary permit is valid for only 6 months and may be renewed for a maximum of three times.
Before a temporary permit is issued, a building permit shall be obtained for a permanent residence, and a $2,000 bond shall be posted with the Building Division.
In Boulder County, you can only "camp" for 14 days out of the year.
Akron businessman sues city to keep homeless tent city on his property
https://fox8.com/2018/10/16/akron-businessman-sues-city-to-keep-homeless-tent-city-on-his-property/
But because the land is zoned commercial, Lewis needed a variance from Akron City Council to allow people to stay there. That variance was denied.
In its lawsuit the Institute for justice claims sheltering the neediest members of society is a legitimate and ancient use of private property that the government cannot impede without a very good reason—and no such reason is present in this case.
The suit argues the harm done to the homeless by casting them out onto the streets outweighs any harm the city could claim by allowing them to shelter on Lewis' property and is, therefore, also protected by the state's constitution.https://www.hometownsource.com/morrison_county_record/rascals-in-the-late-s-taint-the-heart-of-the/article_f7ca495a-023d-11ea-897b-db6dfec6f4cf.html
Claimers were allowed to move onto the land as soon as they had
staked it. However, in order for the land to actually become his or her property, they first must have not only lived on the land for five years, but also have done something to improve it by cultivating the ground and building a house.
If he did not live on the land and improve it, someone else could file a claim for the same piece and the first claimant would lose it,” said records in the historical archives at the Morrison County Historical Society (MCHS).
Some took advantage of the fact that the Homestead Act didn’t specify a minimum size of the house that needed to be built. Some even hired dummies to play the role of a real settler.
“Instead of improving a homestead claim by putting up a full-size house, such a man might build a miniature cabin measuring 12-by-14-inches,” the records state.
Another way to get around the law was to rent a portable cabin for $5, which could be wheeled from one claim to another. Sometimes, also, a man would put up a tent on his claim, stick a few shingles on the sides and call it a house.
https://tinyhousebuild.com/how-to-use-a-variance-to-legalize-your-tiny-house-a-case-study/
At the first meeting with the zoning committee we described our project and within 5 minutes were told, “According to our city regulations, you can not do this”. To be honest, this was a huge blow. All of the preparations and decisions we had made were instantly shot down. Fortunately, the mayor quickly followed up saying, “You can certainly file for a variance” and explained that the city code is there more as a guideline rather than as a hard and fast book of rules.
Variances exist because there are always going to be unique circumstances that require a deviation from the code. After the meeting was over, the mayor briefly talked to us about our project. She mentioned she was very interested in it and hoped that it would go through! Unfortunately, in our town at least, the mayor doesn’t have the authority to give the green light for this type of thing but it certainly was a huge boost to our morale.
In filling out the variance application, we quickly realized that we were going to have to classify our tiny house as something because there was nothing in the code for tiny houses. We decided to categorize it as a “travel trailer” for the purpose of the application. The challenge though was that code states that one cannot live in a travel trailer for more than 14 days so the challenge became to prove to council that we had a legitimate reason for deviating from the code.
We also had to request for a variance from two other codes which dealt with city utilities. The first mandated that any new construction project must connect to city utilities and the second stated that a substantial connection fee must be paid. In any situation in which you are asking for a variance, you can’t just say that you want one simply “Because”. Instead you have to create a convincing case. You have to provide sound reasoning as to WHY. We had 6-7 questions that we had to answer on our variance request form.
We talked to a lot of people in our community to determine how to best answer the questions on our form. This was a very important step. Our mayor became a great ally and suggested that we state that we are caregivers to Nicole’s grandmother (which is true). Since we are a married couple, we deserve a sense of privacy in our own home while still being close enough to help Grandma with her day to day tasks. In terms of the utility codes, we stated in our argument that our structure is not permanent (since it’s on wheels), so we should not have to connect to city utilities or to pay the same fees as permanent homes.
After we submitted the forms, we had to participate in a public hearing with zoning, council members and community members in attendance. Not very many people showed up – but we did have a former mayor there to support our cause. The zoning committee then had a closed door meeting and arrived with a recommendation for the city council. The zoning committee did recommend our project, but with specific stipulations:
1. We have to pay a $500 dollar utility hookup fee to the city (normally over 3K)2. We have to have our own garbage can.3. We have to have a yearly check-in with the city to explain how things are going.4. We have to keep the trailer registration up to date.5. We can only stay at the residence for 4 years, after which we can reapply for the variance.6. We can not dispose of composting materials within city limits.After the zoning committee made the recommendation to the city council, the council members still had to vote and I am pleased to say that it was approved with a vote of 5-1!! We were pumped.
Our water line, graywater drain line and electric line were placed in a 6 foot deep trench that ran from the tiny house location all the way to the front of the house (about 200 feet). All the lines came into the basement of the house underneath the foundation (this was all hand dug when we got that deep). We made the connections inside the house, which was pretty easy. But the problem was that the house is uphill from the tiny house. Therefore we will need to pump the graywater to the house. So when the water exits the tiny house, it goes into a 75 gallon sewage basin. A sewage pump with a float valve is permanently housed in the sewage basin. When the water fills up, it activates the pump, which is directly connected to the graywater drain line. The pump is strong enough to push the water through the 200′ of pipe and drain the water. As for compost materials, we will just dispose of the waste outside the city limits at my wife’s family farm. We will likely not create a compost pile, but will likely just throw it in the dumpster. Not the ideal way, but it’s not our land, and we don’t want to maintain a pile of composting poo. It may create tension to the land owners so we will just throw it in the dumpster.
The property is zoned as “agriculture homestead”. It really is just like residential, but the house on it has been around since the early 1900’s. The actually zoning of the property didn’t make a difference at all. The size of the lot is around 2 acres and is next to 2 commercial companies. That was another piece of the puzzle that made our project unique… The mayor told the committee, this property is the most ideal property in the entire town for tiny house dwelling. No residential neighbors and it butts up to farm land. Can’t beat that! The electrical connection was tapped into the main residence. Read my above response for other utility related questions. The electrical service is tied into a RV type exterior outlet box and is 50 amps......................
I’ve been off the grid “camping” about 4 years now. My planning and zoning guy is pretty cool, by the book, but cool. It’s the assessor you have to watch out for......................................
Typical conversations go something like this.
STRANGER: Do you live there?
ME: Naw, I have an apartment in __ __ __ __ __, I just stay out there as much as I can.
Now, when I get my chickens and goats I’ll have to spend more time out there to take care of them.
If someone is getting too nosey just say, “hey, look at the birds”, and walk away.
I own vacant land in Crestline. (Unincorporated San Bernardino county). I also read that storage structures smaller than 120sf don’t need a permit.https://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/uncategorized/when-is-a-building-permit-not-required/
1) Does this apply to raw, vacant land? Or does there have to be a house built on it first?
2) If there is no pre-existing house requirement, can I make it a recreational cabin as long as it’s under 120sf?
Thanks
So technically I could build a Tumbleweed home that is less than 120 square feet on a foundation as long as it met these requirements. I would need a permit for the wiring and plumbing.https://thetinylife.com/tiny-house-building-codes/
When you want to dwell or live in the home it shifts from a tiny structure to a tiny house, and you run into building permit issues.
The second you place any personal property in your structure, your small house is classified as “dwelling.”
You could, in theory, get around any regulatory issues by saying you were camping (which is allowed in dwellings regardless of coding compliance—like lean-tos, tents and pop up shelters).
The limit is often between 2-30 days in one spot or parcel of land, if camping is allowed at all.
In certain cases, you may get around the camp restriction if you move your tiny home every few days, depending on the camping laws. Then again, the city could also say, “You’re not camping, you’re dwelling in your tiny house,” and you’d face a big problem.
The city inspectors will come through and condemn your tiny house. What condemnation means, is if you enter your house, you could legally get arrested for being in your own home!https://co.stearns.mn.us/PropertyRoads/PropertyAssessments/TheAssessorsCorner/RuralVacantLand
A rural property that features a small, non-residential building is still classified as Class 2b Rural Vacant Land. The law defines minor, ancillary structures as sheds or other primitive structures having an aggregate size of 300 square feet or less, adding minimal value, and is not used residentially except for occasional overnight use for hunting or other outdoor activities
land that is used for timber production is classified as Class 2b Rural Vacant ...https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/2011-11/acp_07_resuse.pdf
A temporary shelter - i.e. a hunting shack or camping cabin or tent intended for short term seasonal occupancy - LESS than 150 square feet.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/23/tiny-houses-solution-homelessness-seattle
Lee was thrilled to discover “a bit of a loophole” whereby structures smaller than 120-square feet are not recognized as permanent dwellings. Tiny houses costing a mere $2,200 would be exempt from regulations governing residential buildings.https://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/12/29/yurt
Seattle – which has declared a state of emergency over its homelessness crisis – threw its support behind the initiative, granting special permission for clusters of cabins on public and private land across the city and giving Lee $1.24m to run various sites in 2017. By the end of the year, her organization will have 127 cabins at five locations, providing shelter to more than 310 men, women and children.
permanent residence permit!
For example, there is one Forest and Agriculture land use category, but
there are multiple Forest Agricultural Management (FAM) districts – FAM 1, FAM 2,
and FAM 3 – each defined by a different minimum lot size requirement.
Forest and Agricultural Management Zoning - Hunting Shack and "other primitive dwellings."
Minnesota has a “right-to-farm” statute that protects agricultural producers from nuisance lawsuits filed by individuals who move next to an existing agricultural producer and later complains and attempts to stop or limit the agricultural operations of the neighboring producer.
No Permit Required: Recreational Vehicles and OTHER camping is allowed on parcels WITHOUT a permit provided....county sewage treatment standards shall be followed.
A noncombustible membrane shall be permitted for use as the roof or as a skylight of any building or atrium of a building of any type of construction provided the membrane is not less than 20 feet (6096 mm) above any floor, balcony or gallery.
Such silicone resin coating film material is recently office buildings, elevators .... is applied to the canvas tarpaulin compound (such as base cloth of polyester fiber ..... The antifouling nonflammable membrane material of the present invention, ...
As described above, the silicone resin coating film material is an effective film material for preventing the spread of fire damage.
https://www.rockwoolgroup.com/our-thinking/indoor-comfort-health-and-safety/fire-resilience/fire-retardant/
https://up.codes/viewer/minnesota/mn-fire-code-2015/chapter/31/tents-and-other-membrane-structures#31
Temporary tents, air-supported, air-inflated or tensioned membrane structures shall not be erected for a period of more than 180 days within a 12-month period on a single premises.https://www.americanexperiment.org/2017/09/pipeline-protesters-camp-northern-mn/
The owner of the land where people identifying themselves as water protectors are camping told the News Tribune he’s “not worried” and will ignore a St. Louis County letter seeking his compliance with campground ordinances.
“What (the county) is asking for is not appropriate,” Scott Kretz said on Tuesday, before addressing the people on his property. “They’re practicing treaty rights and gathering together and I’m allowing it. I don’t have a campground here. I’m not renting spots. It’s a gathering.”
The property in question is located inside the Fond du Lac Reservation, along Brevator Road. It’s not known how many people are inside the camp, named Makwa, meaning bear.
The county, in its letter, cited ordinances for land use fees, solid waste disposal and sewage treatment in making its attempt, it said, “to assist you in properly establishing a campground on your property.”https://www.minnpost.com/rural-dispatches/2016/06/finding-power-local-how-grand-marais-tapping-green-technologies-reach-susta/
Kretz wasn’t buying it.
“I’m not going to get a permit,” he said. “You only get permission or a license to do something which would otherwise be unlawful.”
We got a tip last week that Cook County, Minnesota is tiny house friendly, but I wanted to double-check before spreading a rumor.https://tinyhousetalk.com/cook-county-mn-allows-foundation-tiny-homes/
I contacted Bill Lane, the Planning and Zoning Administrator for Cook County, and he straightened out the details and specifics for those of you interested in going tiny in Minnesota. It’s certainly not a free-for-all, but they are more receptive than many counties!
In short: You’ll need to build on a foundation (or remove the wheels) and comply with zoning and building regulations (and pay taxes!), but it can be done.
First, as inhabitable structures, they warrant both land use and septic permits and as such, must meet all zone district requirements including road, property and resource setbacks.
c) [w]hich is used for overnight accommodation of persons. Any such vehicle or structure is 'inhabitable' regardless of whether a person is actually present[.]
https://bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=903164&forumID=12&confID=1
Consider a Composting toilet and perhaps a holding tank for your grey water if permitted. I use Natures Head Composting Toilet in my OFF-Grid Cabin. It is the best thing since sliced Bread, and they are best suited for cabins and boats.
In rural Lake (probably Cook county too, but I'm not sure), there are no building safety departments so building codes in general are not enforced. The state electrical inspector is the only building inspection you will have.
You do have to get a permit from zoning, which will look at setbacks from lake shore, wetlands, setbacks from property lines, minimum lot size, which varies per zoning district, etc. In Lake County, build able lots must have two sites suitable for a septic system. I may be wrong, but I don't think you can have indoor plumbing unless you have a septic system, so no holding tank or gray water system. Lake County does allow outdoor Privies, unlike neighboring St. Louis County which requires licensed septic installers to install privies.
I'm not sure if Cook County and St. Louis County's regulations are the same, but in SLC you cannot use a gray water system if you have pressurized water on the property. You could have running water & sink drains if the water is gravity fed and comes from a holding tank filled from rain water or a hand pump.
The gray water system is not for sewage. Clean Water Fund grants
The 1950s gravity-fed trench style subsurface sewage treatment system didn’t meet current standards. The lidless septic tank was full. Surface discharge occurred with heavy rains. The septic system met the state’s Imminent Threat to Public Health definition....ensuring subsurface sewage treatment systems comply with the law.
Faecal separation and urine diversion for nutrient management of household biodegradable waste and wastewater pdf
Septic systems are required for graywater systems. The drainage system in new dwellings or other establishments shall be based on a pipe diameter of two inches to prevent installation of a water flush toilet.
https://qcode.us/codes/nevadacounty/view.php?topic=3-vi-5-l__2&frames=on
Composting Toilet Waste Disposal Methods: Disposal of the waste from composting toilets shall be disposed of only after such time as the material is thoroughly and completely decomposed and rendered noninfectious. Total and fecal coliform organisms shall not exceed the levels specified in the NSF Standard Number 41. The composted material may be disposed of as follows:
1. At an approved solid waste disposal facility capable of accepting human waste.2. By an approved licensed septic tank pumper.3. On the property containing the waterless toilet. Said disposal shall be performed in a manner which prevents contamination of humans, animals, surface waters or groundwaters. The process of removing the waste material shall be done with care for personal safety, with protective non-permeable gloves worn. Disposal methods permitted are:a. Direct burial under a minimum of 12 inches (12”) of compacted soil.b. Shallow subsurface tilling or a similar technique approved by the Department. Sites proposed for shallow subsurface disposal shall have access restricted to the operator of the waterless toilet system, excluding children, pets, and persons not associated with the compost disposal, by fencing or other method approved by the Environmental Health Department. Surface distribution of end product prior to tilling shall be a maximum thickness of one-half inch (1/2”). Tilling shall be carried out immediately after surface distribution is completed. Surface distribution shall be timed to avoid sheet flows of water caused by rainfall.4. Disposal of the waste on the property shall not be carried out by methods designated in subsections 3.a or 3.b of subparagraph E above whenever an individual with a communicable disease transmittable by black water is utilizing the system.
Dropping it down that dry well is a good idea. Letting it pour onto the surface is not such a great idea, simply because of food particles that are carried in the water. These attract flies, and even larger scavengers.
https://growlermag.com/life-in-the-woods-three-families-go-off-the-grid-in-northern-minnesota/
they got around the zoning codes by parking in a "back yard" and calling the homes "Studios" (for their work.)
So - what I learned from this research is that there are several counties in northern Minnesota that do although privies (composting toilets) WITHOUT a septic system and/or professional "removal" of waste -(rather instead a tank for graywater) as long as there is a 20 acre minimum lot size - and 100 feet from the nearest well, etc. (pdf)
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/7083.0700/
an individual who, after obtaining a signed site evaluation and design report from a licensed design business, constructs an ISTS to serve a dwelling that is owned by the individual and functions solely as a dwelling or seasonal dwelling for that individual.
an individual who maintains a toilet waste treatment device for a dwelling that is owned by the individual and functions solely as a dwelling or seasonal dwelling for that individual;
Subp. 86.
Toilet waste treatment devices.
"Toilet waste treatment devices" means other toilet waste apparatuses including incinerating, composting, biological, chemical, recirculating, or holding toilets or portable restrooms.
A privy also means a non-dwelling structure containing a toilet waste treatment device (7080.1100, Subp 86).
Subp. 4.
Toilet waste treatment devices and privies.
A.
For primitive dwellings using toilet waste treatment devices in low dwelling density areas, septage disposal from these devices by the owner must be in accordance with local ordinances. If no ordinance exists, the septage must not be discharged to surface waters, drainageways, steeply sloping areas, or wet areas in a manner or volume that is harmful to the environment or public health or that creates a nuisance. The material must be buried or covered with soil. For site conditions not met in this subpart, the solids disposal from toilet waste treatment devices shall be according to subpart 6 by a licensed maintenance business. I was JUST told by the state pollution control agency that NO permit is required for a composting toilet since there is NO discharge! pdf link corroborates this claim! awesome!!
A composting toilet uses only 0.5 L of water per flush and requires no septic tank.
https://doitgreen.org/topics/house-home/toilets-you-and-environment/
We started the Asheville Small Home Advocacy Committee to help others in the city find ways to live tiny in legally viable ways. [SHAC]
https://www.120squarefeet.com/
So "SHAC" got tiny houses on foundation "legalized" in that county of Asheville. Pretty impressive!
http://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2019/06/void-in-rule-of-primitive-dwelling-site.html
A tiny house on a foundation is legal anywhere within Buncombe County, including Asheville city limits, as long as the home meets the current North Carolina building code.Apr 6, 2018Forest River Forums > Forest River Community Forums > Forest River Lifestyle Seasonal, Long-term and Work Camping
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