So I caved in to the 10' x 16' version of this heavy duty canvas. I'm pretty positive these tarps are ordered from Chicago Canvas tarps
So the good news is they are not "fire resistant" - which is a separate standard than "water resistant"
Finish: UV, Mildew and Water ResistantIt says NOT to use it for a tent roof - why? Because it's not fire retardant treated! Good since those chemicals are carcinogenic.
Treatment: Canvak - Waxed paraffin treated
another retail store offering the same product - same price
In fact, flame resistant tents are required for use in California, Minnesota, Michigan, Louisiana, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York.
I have been researching how to cover the roof of my tent to protect it better from the rain and UV damage. There's nothing worse than a tent that starts leaking water during a rain storm. And these inexpensive nylon tents - with a treatment that wears off - it's just not good enough.
Very good quality, using it for boat cover, have had multiple storms, two with hail, no problems
So at first I was going to get a tarp. I saw a tarp on sale - big enough to cover the tent. I thought this is it - but to test myself - I read over 950 reviews on Harbor Freight. You have to keep loading the page - and it takes awhile - and sure enough the critical reviews at the very end say how the tarp disintegrates into a "silver dust." That settled it. I didn't really want to buy more plastic - and the UV damage made the tarp only last a couple years at best - but the grommets also easily rip out. So you need to buy special elastic stretch balls to not damage the tarp - adding quite a bit to the cost....
So then I remembered my canvas research. The other thing about a tarp is that it doesn't breathe - so you can't put it right on the tent roof. So I would have had to suspend it higher up, tied off the trees. But a canvas tarpaulin breathes - that's the whole point. Traditionally they are waterproofed using Linseed oil from flax seeds - so also this is non-toxic. So I had gotten some free linseed oil. You can also use silicone - I had some of that also - but it has a strong chemical to it - and also it is either not water repellent enough and if so then the canvas doesn't breathe enough anymore.
So I decided - I discovered that Harbor Freight actually has very cheap 10 ounce drop cloth as canvas - and sure enough - I read all the 350 reviews - and several say the canvas was used for making a tipi - by sewing together 7 pieces of the canvas - or the canvas was used for a tent floor or for a camper roof and walls, etc. So I thought this will be fantastic! It took me awhile to get to Harbor Freight, only to discover that particular drop cloth canvas was out of stock and sells fast.
So a 12 oz canvass is something like 16% heavier but 40% stronger. It's recommended to use a "lodge pole brace" - which is basically just a tree to support the center of the tent! Sounds good!
So I began looking at other stores and when I tried Mills Fleet Farm - based out of Wisconsin - so a Midwest chain - sure enough. The above is more expensive but I don't have to "join" together two tarps - and also it's a thicker canvas so more water proof. And the grommets are reinforced.
So also I did not need to waterproof it as it was already waterproofed. https://www.canadianoutdoorequipment.com/woods-standard-prospector-tents.html
Now the question is - WITH WHAT was it waterproofed? The canvas tarp can not be sold in California - so my guess is the treatment is banned in California as being carcinogenic? I'm not sure.
Note: We cannot ship tents to CA, LA, MA, MI, MN, NY, NJ or Canada without the FIRE Treatment.Oh that must be it! I have the canvas outside now getting washed out by the rain - it says at first then the color will wash out a bit. So now I am researching - how to remove the carcinogenic treatment - if I need to - and if I need to get more linseed with mineral spirits....
So the standard treatment for canvas water resistance is CANVAK - and so now I'll see. whatever the treatment is - it's the precise SAME smell as the military "half-shell" pup canvass tent I bought last year. So it's a kind of "sweet" acrid smell - kind of like - maybe what cyanide smells like? A kind of almond smell... yes that's it...
Yes I even went to the Military Surplus store today and sure enough that had several "half shell" pup canvas tents - and they were $40. So this is a lot more canvas than a half-shell tent - and it was $100. Whereas the Harbor Freight canvas was $16 for half the size of what I got but also a less water resistant, lighter fabric and also not treated.
Yes Canvak water proofing treatment gets a WARNING for California....
Cancer and Reproductive Harm- www.P65Warnings.ca.gov.
Canvak is petroleum based and perfect for mildew and water resistance. Use on tarps, automotive covers, boat covers, tents, tipis, yurts, outdoor furniture fabrics and other items. With the active ingredients being 85% mineral spirits, 12.5% inactive ingredients and 2.% Zinc Naphtenate, this water resistant canvas and fabric preservative is legendary!So I think - the strong smell is a combination of petroleum and mineral spirits...
https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/products/petroleum-products
And so the smell is supposed to go away when you air it out. That's why I have the tarp right now - outside - getting rained on and aired out!!
So the petroleum part is just to be able to spray on the Canvak I think. Oh wait - also the "parrafin" is the wax distillation from oil - but I don't think it has a smell.
Paraffin wax is mostly found as a white, odorless, tasteless, waxy solid, with a typical melting point between about 46 and 68 °C (115 and 154 °F)
Inhaling paraffin wax base causes irritation of the eyes and the respiratory tract especially for sensitive people. ... Paraffin wax base in contact with the skin is dangerous because it can cause serious burns. Also, direct contact of paraffin wax fumes to the eye can cause irruption.
Most candles are made of paraffin wax, which creates highly toxic benzene and toluene when burned (both are known carcinogens). In fact, the toxins released from paraffin candles are the same as those found in diesel fuel fumesOK so I probably want to get rid of this and switch over to linseed oil -
So my next question was - will the Wilderness Lodge aluminum pole frame be able to support the canvas roof?
Montana Canvas Wall Tent 12' x 14' Aluminum Frame 2 Windows ...
It looks promising!! There is also a 12 oz canvas with aluminum frame!Montana Canvas Wall Tent 12' x 14' With Aluminum Frame, 2 Windows, Screen Door, Stove Jack and Fly 10 oz Canvas. Product Family #: 1007789729; Product...
So this canvass tent with aluminum frame is $1800 !!!!Granted it has stock jack - but it's a lot more expensive than the $225 tent I got - the "wilderness lodge." And now I'm adding the $100 canvas tent roof. So... Still a LOT less. Also I'm sure the zippers are ten times better than the cheap zippers that break easily in my "wilderness lodge" tent. But I'm gonna get a "zipper repair kit" for when the inevitable happens. Also the stakes are better - but I have good stakes from the previous military pup tent I got.
OK....so that's $1500 cheaper!!
Are you sure? YES I Am sure. I just saved $1500 simply by not having canvass walls and floor.
Well no wonder that model is discontinued - that is a steep price I guess. So here is someone who did the same thing I was going to do - got a Harbort Freight canvas and then was going to waterproof it
I'd just go with Canvak. I know its mostly mineral spirits, but at least they don't try to hide it. I think its up to somewhere around $30 a gallon now, so if that's too expensive you can just use a tube of silicone dissolved in mineral spirits.Exactly!!
Or, if you were looking to go "green", make an oil cloth with boiled linseed oil.
I think the smell of the Canvak will wash out and the odorless paraffin will remain - and I'll have a roof between me and the paraffin - so I won't be inhaling any of the paraffin itself. It doesn't offgas unless it's heated over 115 Fahrenheit....
So here is another model - similar size - with aluminum frame and canvas and slightly lower price at $1500
OK so still a difference of $1300!!
So then a cheap tarp would have been $30 but would not breathe - so I would have to suspend it above the roof of the tent (not able to support the tarp with the aluminum frame of the Wilderness Lodge)... And the tarp would have lasted only 2 years at best.
A good canvas tarp should last a long time - and when the Canvak treatment wears off in a year or two then I'll just use GREEN linseed oil treatment....
So this canvas tarp over the roof of the tent should definitely protect the tent from strong rain - but also hopefully while stabilize the tent with more mass - against wind. So there will be less "shear" force during strong winds - that otherwise would bend the aluminum poles.
Floor material: 210D poly-oxford with a 1200 mm polyurethane coating
Let's see what the Wilderness Lodge specs are again - I did a blog post on it.
I'd much rather sleep on that than vinyl!!
Polyvinyl chloride (PVC or vinyl) is the most toxic plastic for our health and the environment. ... Volatile Vinyl: The New Shower Curtain's Chemical Smell ...And I'm just gonna throw out that Vinyl air mattress. There are about half a dozen NON-PVC air mattresses but half of them are "discontinued" - and the other half a too expensive. No big deal - just make a "futon" out of blankets piled up or whatever. Normally I sleep on the floor with no mattress nor futon anyway.... I just like a "flat" sleeping space. So I'll just flatten out and raise up the ground - for better drainage....
And I told the Harbor Freight worker that I would be back as he said he'd get the canvas back in on Wednesday - and it's only $15 - so I can use a floor coverings and a ground "foot print." One person uses a canvas ground "footprint" and then this polyester and THEN the actual tent on top. Sounds good.
Indoor Outdoor Rugs. Most Indoor Outdoor rugs are made from Eco-fi, a 100% synthetic recycled fiber. Recycled consumer grade plastic bottles make this fiber! This polyester fiber has natural water-resistant and stain-resistant properties that make it great for the outdoors.Not only is vinyl a bad carcinogen but the industry has covered up this fact.
A lot of these pricey canvas tents have vinyl floors - and so you sleep with your head next to the vinyl!! No thanks!! Check this out:
My 6.5 feet x 6.5 feet grow tent emits this rubbery smell. Its the same smell as those inflatable rubber air mattress things you can float with on water when you got to beach. Being in the room with it makes my throat sore in no time. It has 400m3 fan with carbon filter in it but its not helping really.EXACTLY - that's why I'm throwing out that vinyl air mattress. What can be done with vinyl anyway?
What about the polyethylene tarps?
Vinyl Siding – Southwest Regional Solid Waste Commission
Vinyl siding is reclaimed, melted down, and formed into new siding. The material contains about 80% polyvinyl chloride (PVC), a material difficult to recycle, ...
Dec 13, 2007 - Following a report that vinyl PVC plastics in children's products posed a health ... The presence of so many compounds in PVC formulations makes the plastic difficult to recycle, and burning it in ... Greater Minnesota newsletter
will recycle vinyl covered 3-ring binders. (You can ... Apple Valley, MN 55124. 952-953- .... The plastics will be extruded, pelletized and made into new plastic.
Brita Sailer, executive director of the nonprofit Recycling Association of Minnesota, said many farmers in the past 20 years have increasingly turned to plastic covers or bags to store hay and silage — chopped up cornstalks — that are fed to cows. The bags are safer and less expensive than the traditional method of storing the fodder in silos, she said, and they also keep the silage fresher and help it retain more nutrients.But Sailer said the bags, which can range from 100 to 300 feet long and 6 to 12 feet tall, created a waste problem that the state didn’t have before and there was no way of coping with it other than landfills. For farmers who use the bags or covers, she said, the amount of plastic used per cow amounts to 15 to 20 pounds per year.Revolution Plastics is not the first business to be interested in the waste plastic, Sailer said, but it’s the first to offer free pickup and have its own processing plants.
OK back to canvas tents.
So the 10 x 14 Kodiak is similar size - only the walls are not vertical (as with the Wilderness Lodge) - so you do lose space.
The floor is a seamless, heavy-duty, puncture resistant, 16 oz vinyl that keeps water out.Crazy - you want canvass since it's more natural but then they make the floors as a Carcinogen!!
Amazing. You don't want your breathing all night against carcinogen fumes.
https://recycleminnesota.org/resources/recycling/
I'll see if I can recycle that nasty PVC air mattress.
So Earthworks Systems specializes in PVC recycling.
Looks like it's just the PVC cards in your wallet.
- Shower Curtains
- Because they are made of PVC, they are not usually able to be recycled, but they can be repurposed.
How to Recycle an Air Mattress | Hunker
Old air mattresses, also called air beds, pose a difficult dilemma for recyclers. Because many air mattresses are made from plastic with PVC, many recycling centers don't accept them on a routine basis. This is because PVC leaks dioxins as it breaks down.
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