Wednesday, November 18, 2020

Noise analysis of adding hexagonal Boron Nitride aka "white graphene" to car engine oil as treatment: A lowering of frequency?

 So I just added the Air-Tec aka Wagner Micro Ceramic aka "white graphene" or hexagonal boron nitride to the car engine oil. The dose was lower than what is recommended. I think I added about 3% or 3.5% instead of the recommended 5%.

Still supposedly even a 1% dose has a dramatic effect. But can you HEAR the effect?

I could not notice any difference but my engine noise is supposedly mainly the valves and not the bearings.

https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=103925

Someone used Audacity to analyze their adding of hexagonal boron nitride. They claimed to both hear and record the difference and importantly the difference was a lowering in pitch.

 Better than a 50% reduction in high frequency sound - sharp rubbing and knocking.
This is very good news for engine wear and efficiency.

However, those engine components are still producing noise, but the improved lubrication means that the noise is of a lower pitch.
Therefore we can expect that noise to show up in the volume of lower pitched noise.

 Then states a bit paradoxically:

Increased lubricity cannot increase the impact noise pitch.
Therefore, this is confirmation that 'component on component impact' has been reduced, with the resulting noise pitch being relocated at a lower level.

 I don't know... someone else chimes in:

Less Friction appears as bearing wear and while it reduces the life of the engine, it doesn't necessarily make noise

 So the whole point of this produce is to reduce bearing wear. So I'm not sure it will reduce noise that much. What about the lifters or rockers?

If the cams are worn, then once you have confirmed the oil flow is good by using a flush and moved up an SAE group, then it often helps to use a modern ceramic particle additive like LM Ceratec to coat the exposed metal parts with hBN (Hexagonal form of Boron Nitride). Ceratec also includes some extra Mo (Moly), a friction reducer, although that part of the suspension is not needed with a good major brand full synthetic like Mobil 0w40 or Ultra 0 or 5w40, as they already contain Mo.

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-261850.html 

TriboTEX Nano Oil Additive Car Engine Treatment: Add to ...

The smart ceramic coating forms as you drive. Please allow at least 500 miles of normal driving to notice the full benefits of TriboTEX, but do not worry, these ...

So TriboTex is the synthetic calc - a different product. But it makes sense that with increased driving then increased pressure works the nano material into the metal.

Japanese Test vid does Noise test after 700 km or 434 miles 

So that makes sense. The initial 10 minute "circulation" is just to make sure the "white graphene" is mixed into the oil but it's the driving with increased pressure that forces the "white graphene" into bonding with the metal.

And the noise only still dropped a few decibels...

It's logarithmic so .... it's significant.

That's a drop in amplitude or volume. Not a frequency drop.

So then someone else uses the Ceratec which is NOT just boron nitride - it has a "friction" additive for the oil. And guess what happened?

It looks like the ceratec broke down the oil. Most likely this is the reason the oil light was flickering due to the viscosity of the oil being toasted. Filter looked ok. BTW I had an oil change about 200 miles ago BEFORe i put in the ceratec. So about 250 miles later Im getting an oil change due to this liqui moly crap.

 Yeah so I'm not gonna use that stuff. I'll put Marvel Mystery Oil in the gasoline though as that will treat the valve noise better.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?906742-Help!-Need-expert-opinion-help!-I-screwed-up-BIG-TIME!

So they're saying the boron nitride was CAKED onto the side of the metal bottle. I shook mine vigorously for a couple minutes. I'm gonna go look at the bottle now to see if I can see any remains. It's white though - the "amber" color of the other stuff is due to using synthetic "friction" modifiers as esters.

Low viscosity ester fluids

 So they lost oil pressure not due to "mineral oil" but the synthetic esters.

OK so this is google translate of a German review of Wagner Micro Ceramic compared to Ceratec:

According to your theory, the Wagner Micro Ceramic also only works after 500km, 
which would therefore speak even more in favor of the Wagner Micro Ceramic, 
if then I would have achieved the fuel savings in 200km.

To provide some clarity. The Ceratec works! BUT the Micro Ceramic works 
SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER. When you consider that there are approx. 20g of Micro Ceramic
 in 500ml and that the Wagner Micro Ceramic is snow-white, I wonder what is in 
the Ceratec ?! Because "Ceramic" is white and the Ceratec is "golden brown". I 
suspect that the Ceratec contains significantly less ceramic, which would also 
explain the lower price. With the Wagner Micro Ceramic I know what I have and you 
can also see it in the color. Furthermore, I noticed with the Ceratec after approx.
 5tkm that the effect was noticeably reduced, I could not determine this behavior
 with the Wagner Micro Ceramic.

Again for clarification. The Micro Ceramic works from the first second, but 
it unfolds its full power with time and every KM made. The reduction in wear occurs 
immediately, but storage takes time.
And then on the Oil Stop review!
 Well, the oil stop does the seals something good, whether you can count that against
 the oil consumption? If the seal is leaking because of its aging or if it lasts a 
little longer, it would be my point. I save the repair for a few euros.
So maybe it will work in the power steering seals!
back to the Boron NiI just spoke to Wagner on the phone. The MC is definitely the
 preferred product for short trips.
The fluid in which the MicroCreamic floats is the SAE 30 engine oil additive. So 
if you use the MC, you automatically have the SAE 30 + the MicroCeramic as a mixture.
Why is the MC better?

The additives need a high temperature to work, since you drive a lot of short 
distances, it is not always there immediately. Wear is higher when the temperature 
of the lubricant is low, because the additives need a high temperature to function
 perfectly.
The microceramic is there when the oil is cold, which many also find is the improved,
 shorter starting when the engine is cold. The MC protects the components from wear 
if the lubricants have NOT yet reached their operating temperature.
..........
But what struck me is that the positive properties of the Ceratec declined after 
about 4-5tkm. 
With Wagner Micro Ceramic the effects 

 

are permanently noticeable.
but the Wagner Microceramic has put the ceratec in the shade in my experience.

 

Wow - one company is marketing their product as better BECAUSE the hBN is in dispersant!
Particles of hBN, though known as effective anti-wear (AW) and anti-friction (AF) additives, did not prove effective in oil in the presence of dispersants.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322288459_Hexagonal_boron_nitride_as_a_solid_lubricant_additive_An_overview

As for the boron nitride itself, it was observed to be stayed well dispersed within the oil and
formed a stable tribofilm, which was important to achieve improved tribological performance.

 In case of nano-scale particles, mainly

because of their very large surface-to-volume ratio, as well as light weight (due to BN low
specific gravity), these powders may stay in dispersion for a long time without the use of
additional surfactants. Fortunately, boron nitride can be produced in nano-powders and,
therefore, is easy to incorporate within liquid lubricants.

 

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