Tuesday, March 26, 2019

EcoEcho Goddess Worship: Lata Mangeshakar as Jeeva Swara and The Antiphonal Echo Sound System of Indian Playback singing

Your uploaded all sweet, memorable, classic golden era songs are more than sweetest by help of Echo Sound System. Many more thanks for cheerful uploading and regards. 


I'm not the only Westerner enthralled by the "playback" Indian Bollywood songs. I was recommended a certain "Old is Gold" c.d. at the Global Market in Minneapolis - by a man whose wife, he told me, was a tantrik goddess at a local temple (something along those lines). Little did I know that the opening song on the CD I have replaying "eternally" as my driving music - is this scandalous cabaret dance video

 So I asked that channel uploading "Old is Gold" cds to upload the one I love listening to.
@Indian Music & Jhankar Can you upload Old is Gold: Legends: The golden collection, AaJane Jaan, album 25. Thanks.
We'll see what happens! Uploaded!! - thanks  In the mean time we can see why Westerners are so intrigued by this strange Bollywood sound recording style....

 Then add TONS of delay, chorus and reverb!!!  and then the right arrangement of instruments.

I always thought it was partly due to the recording techniques...especially that "bollywood" string sound.  But it's actually all in orchestration.  They got EWQLSO Platinum to have that Bollywood orchestra sound.  I was surprised when I started tracking overdubs and mixing for them at how they do it mostly through orchestration and arranging.

The vocal sound is tough to reproduce, but if you have a singer that has been trained to sing indian music, they can achieve the sound without much tweaking on the engineer's part (aside from the effects).
 Yes there is something very special going on...

Traditional indian music has no concept of harmony. There are singers and percussionists, and all instrumentalists are playing no more than one note at a time. Western influences started to come in the 50s, with swing and (later) rock and roll. So theres chords and everything and sometimes, string arrangements with multiple parts, but still no vocal harmony.

no vocal harmony + many "duets" means that when male singer and female singer are singing together, the female singer is always an octave above. Maybe because of this, or maybe because we seem to like it anyway, female singers are always singing in a very high pitch. I think it may be some form of bat worship.
Yes in Nature this octave difference is called antiphonal I think... I have written on this before.


Where bats are guardian angels - The Hindu


May 28, 2018 - In Nagaon district of central Assam, a group of villages worship at a cave of bats. ... And now the Nipah virus outbreak has added to the fear, as one way the infection spreads is through the excrement of bats. ... They worship at Baduli Kurung (bat cave) in the Bamuni hill, 17 km south of ...

https://soundstudiesblog.com/2017/11/06/out-of-sync-gendered-location-sound-work-in-bollywood/

So synchronized sound and image recording is actually a new thing - since the 90s - in India.

Echo Sound II - upload


Extremely nice Songs which you have uploaded on festival HOLI with nicely Echo Effects....... THANKS and Happy Holi. 

So it's only fitting that for my EcoEcho Forest Cultivation venture - I listen to Echo Sound music...


super magic voice and nice echo
 So that's on this third upload

OK now that we've established the Echo Sound System is definitely a reference to the particular recording style.... now we can delve into the singing octave harmonics between male and female - and "lack" of Indian harmonics. This is fascinating!

So the vocals are given prominence and the Indian lyrics were crucial to the movies - and the message (google book link) - and so the vocal singing still uses Indian music tuning for the scale - and THUS there are no WESTERN harmonics in the singing "duets." Fascinating!!! I really like that.

I was wondering WHY I liked these recordings so much. Pondering the female Indian playback singing in high voice octave

 shoudl female play back singers always sing in false voice? y a good and sweet voice has 2 norms , one for cinema and one for classical singing.

I guess that this falsetto was started by Lata and all susheela and Janaki and Vanis followed suit.
 generally voice goes flatter i.e decreases in shruti as we age and this is a natural phenomenon. . but conversely it is the opposite to playback singers since they employ falsetto .
Doesn't sound like falsetto singing by the females to me!! It would be falsetto for a male of course...

 The female playback singers always suffer from an occupational problem of singing duet with male singers whose sruthi is by nature low.For falling in tune, they need to match the male sruti at the shadjam of next octave. thereby raising their sruti to 6.5 or 7.Singing way above ones natural sruthi does induce false voice.One can notice this at the struggles of Anuradha Sriram when she sings jugalbandhi with Sriram,inspite of her strength of a high pitched voice.
Inspite of this handicap, it seems far fetched that Lata and Asha and Susheela used false voices.They never needed the crutches of a false voice as they had tremendous voice range.
It is to thie credit that they maintained their voice quality inspite of this harsh load on thier voice.
Exactly - they're NOT singing in falsetto.

 The two systems are quite different; In Western music Chords( in a simple way various frequencies being played simultaneously) are very crucial whereas in our system esp. Carnatic music Melody is King meaning one frequency follows another in time & even in a particular frequency slight variations are both necessary & essential from the base frequency -ornamentations- in the frequency itself; As a matter of fact both oral traditions as well as various ragas having developed over time from folk traditions etc . Things are more complex & as it would take too long & I am not sure how many would be interested in the detailed explanation I am leaving this in this simplistic situation......vkv
There you go - corroboration - the OCTAVE singing of Indian playback music is due to NOT using Western tuning!!

 Micronotes as they are called are allowed in carnatic music. This puts the various notes used in ragas in our system as not exactly pure in the frequency sense. In western music they have to be absolute. This is one of the reasons "Chords" as they are called in westrn music where various pure frequencies simultaneously occur at any instant resulting in what is called Harmonic System and various harmonies result as a result of different notesbeing present at the same instant.. In our music at any instant in time only one frequency-like "ri" etc- can occur though the frequency may not be pure but consist of ever so slightly different frequencies on either side of the pure note. So the wetern musician has to take great care to produce the absolute frequency whereas our musician can relax a little bit on this point but he has to conform to what has traditionally been acceptable with emphasis on certain key notes as they have been allowed to occur resulting in emphasis on certain notes resulting in what can be considered Jeeva Swaras.
These are most easily demonstrated with an instrument; I will try to look for lec-dem where this point has been addressed. vkv
 "primary tones" of the raga.

No, it is not false voice that playback singers sing with. It is virtually impossible to sing for minutes together on a "false voice".

It maybe that film music has chosen higher-pitched singers preferrably, but it chooses NATURALLY high-pitched singers.
 OK Now we move from that 'Naturally" comment to Antiphonal Octave Echos in Nature!!

ultrasonic concave-eared torrent frogs Odorrana tormota inhabiting ... measured: latency and pattern of antiphonal response, distance of a ...
 Bat worship - so yes I did remember it correctly. Antiphonal means an octave difference between male and female for natural mating music!!

And just as I suspected - BATS do the same thing!!

A mechanism for antiphonal echolocation by Free-tailed bats




Jan 31, 2019 - PDF | Bats are highly social and spend much of their lives echolocating in the presence of other bats. To reduce the effects of acoustic ...
So the Indian film singing Playback Echo sound system by using an Octave nonwestern singing harmonic is NATURALLY echoing the resonance of NATURE.






Meri Awaaz Suno: Women, Vocality, and Nation in Hindi Cinema


Pavitra Sundar

Meridians

Vol. 8, No. 1, Representin': Women, Hip-Hop, and Popular Music (2008), pp. 144-179

I think we just found out the secret already - but let's see what the article states (pdf)....

Meri Awaaz Suno = Listen to my voice.

Yes the author notes that Lata has a naturally high-pitched voice (confirming it is NOT falsetto....)

Actually this LIVE performance of Aa Jaane Jaan - they actually tuned UP the scale several notes and she IS forced to sing in Falsetto - and it does sound much worse!!  This is when she is 70 years old!! Too bad they did that to the song.... the original version she is NOT singing Falsetto.



hmmm - a fascinating analysis here:




Wow.....truly a virginal voice?




and goddess status?


and she is the "top" singer of INdia!



Sacred Grove nature worship in Tamil Nadu South India

 Human activities that were previously taboo, such as dead wood collection, biomass gathering, lopping of tender branches and green leaves for goats, creation of footpaths, cattle grazing, mining of sand and clay, brick-making and collection of wild fruits, vegetables, medicinal plants, fruit-eating bats and fireflies, are affecting the ecology of the sacred groves.

Pushing bats off their holy roosts - The Hindu




Jul 28, 2018 - It is not just thousand-year-old deities that dwell in the ancient temples of southern Tamil Nadu. Bats too make their home in the little nooks and ...

 http://arunachal24.in/a-bizarre-village-in-india-where-bats-are-worshipped/

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