Monday, July 1, 2019

Solving the mysterious Swainson's Thrush song call versus Snipe winnowing claim


Mysterious and RARE combo Swainson's Thrush and Veery song duet
On Mon, 1 Jul at 4:05 PM
Yes, you are absolutely right on the first part. Thanks for my patience while I processed your question.

I think I'm hearing both Swainson's and Veery on your recording. 

Sarah 


Sarah Wagner
Ph.D.
Public Information Specialist
The Cornell Lab of Ornithology

Just the Swainson's Thrush song - recording


I'm hearing only frogs and a winnowing Wilson's Snipe. 

Is there a time stamp I could focus on? 


Sarah Wagner
Ph.D.
Public Information Specialist
The Cornell Lab of Ornithology

Exclusive EcoEcho forest cultivation recordings.

These recordings are not good quality. Sorry.

My friend's farm has both these birds - according to me. They are claiming the Swainson's Thrush is a Snipe winnowing. I say - we should be able to see the aerial display courtship flight of the Snipe. They say the Veery is a Bobolink.

Maybe I'm wrong! Who knows?

https://www.audubon.org/field-guide/bird/swainsons-thrush

I've SEEN the Swainson's Thrush at the EcoEcho forest - so I know it's there.


It's considered very rare to see one - but it was looking at me and hopping towards me, curious.

So I emailed the Cornell Bird Lab about their Swainson's Thrush recording

Is that "background" upward scale from the Swainson's Thrush or a different bird? If it is different than which bird is it!!

So I got an automated reply and it included a message that I could also submit recordings for ID, so I sent in the above Swainson's Thrush recording.


Hi again Dr. Wagner: I'm just saying that it would be "nice" if you could point out that there's a Snipe winnowing in the background of your FIRST Swainson's Thrush song recording - in the background. For those of us who "might" think that is "part" of the actual Swainson's Thrush song - since both the Snipe winnowing and the Swainson's Thrush song are - to quote you -

ascending notes are diagnostic

So you might understand how having the two similar songs on the same recording might confuse people.
thanks again (and yes I did take ornithology at UW-Madison back in the early 90s). haha.
drew
 Dr. Wagner: I was having a "debate" with my farm friend who thought they were hearing Snipe, just as you first also thought. Now you are saying it's Swainson's Thrush. Personally I knew it was an intermixed flock right next to my tent - so it could not be Snipe doing aerial display. So you have now changed your position from Snipe to Swainson's Thrush? I am just confirming this since it appears these two can be easily confused?
Thanks again, 
drew
 Dr. Wagner: I'm just clarifying that I made both those recordings of forest songbird flocks right outside my tent in my forest. So you said the first one was Snipe but the 2nd recording was Swainson's Thrush. So I'm just saying it's either one or the other since both were of forest songbird flocks. I'm also saying that your own Cornell recording has the same single note (repeated twice) ascending - in the background of the Swainson's Thrush (the first link I sent you with the time stamps noted). So that must be a RARE version of the Swainson's Thrush song that is "not" multiphonics but yet also ascending?
thanks again, 
drew

OK I got no new replies back so I can only reread her response and get this:


Yes, you are absolutely right on the first part. Thanks for my patience while I processed your question.

I think I'm hearing both Swainson's and Veery on your recording. 

Sarah 


Sarah Wagner
Ph.D.
Public Information Specialist
The Cornell Lab of Ornithology

 And NOW she's changed her position BACK again!
Hi,

Swainson's and Snipes are VERY different. Not really similar at all. 

I think the only coincidence is that the Cornell recording and your recording both also have snipes. 

Sarah 

Sarah Wagner
Ph.D.
Public Information Specialist
The Cornell Lab of Ornithology


Snipe Spectrogram

 These do not ascend. You can see and hear that.


OK I'll answer my own question - that link I sent you from the same "series" of spectrograms of Swainson's Thrush ALSO has Snipe in the background. But you are claiming this is "not" ascending?
That looks like an ascending frequency to me - and that's also what I hear. It's a Snipe Spectrogram.

Spectrogram - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrogram

Frequencies are shown increasing up the vertical axis, and

Still I get your point - it's not the same time of beautiful multiphonic ascending frequency. For those who already know the difference then having the two songs interspersed would prove to be too obvious to need worth mentioning. Sounds perfect for those not needing to learn. haha.

Let's start here. 



These do not ascend. You can see and hear that. 

Wilson's Snipes are seen in the area where the recording was made of the Swainson's from the All About Birds Page: https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Swainsons_Thrush/sounds
​
The Macaulay record: 


Swainson's Thrushes are the only thrushes that have the ascending quality. 

I hope that helps. 

Sarah 

Sarah Wagner
Ph.D.
Public Information Specialist

So yes it is a Snipe that I heard on your land and not a Swainson's Thrush. And also Cornell Lab just "coincidentally" also has a Snipe interspersed with their Swainson's Thrush recording (only they don't point out this fact). And also now Dr. Wagner is claiming the Snipe is not an "ascending" diagnostic - even though the spectrogram clearly shows an ascending frequency and you can hear it. That's hilarious. Oh well - she did change her position three times.

So, is your main question now whether or not the screenshot you sent of a winnowing Wilson's Snipe ascending? I agree, it certainly looks that way and does get both louder and higher. Apologies. 
​
It simply sounds so incredibly different to me than a thrush song. 

If you have another question, please clarify. 

Thanks,
Sarah

















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