"The Jews get monotheism from Plato"...
Pretty sure Zoroastrianism has a strong influence on Judaism also - not just Platonic philosophy....
All those stories would have been in the libraries in Greece where they wrote the Bible! Lol unless you were joking
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@meatloafhead how come they're not in Greek myth then? I mean there is also Zoroastrian influence also. 12 was a key number for Zoroastrian and Babylonian number system as well. Not just Greek.
The 5th-century BC Elephantine Papyri are primarily written in Imperial Aramaic, the lingua franca of the Persian Empire, rather than Hebrew script. While used by a Jewish colony for legal and administrative documents, these texts lack Hebrew scripting and reflect the linguistic trends of the era
Wow!!!!!!!! This interview totally blows me away. The Torah written in 270 BCE I knew that there were parallels with Greek writers, but for someone taught in College that the Torah was written 800-1000 BCE this blows me away.
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The Israelites were still poly/henotheistic at that time. Its only after Babylonian exile they became monotheistic.
@janecasper846 My forthcoming book "Plato's Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts" concludes monotheism was taken from Plato. Coming out maybe this fall. I'm sure Derek will interview me about it. https://dn710205.ca.archive.org/0/items/russell-gmirkin-plato-and-the-creation-of-the-hebrew-bible/Russell%20Gmirkin%20-%20Plato%20and%20the%20creation%20of%20the%20Hebrew%20Bible.pdf
Numenius of Apamea, the second century CE Neo-Pythagorean “pagan” philosopher,
famously asserted, “What is Plato but Moses writing in Attic?” (Clement of Alexan-
dria, Miscellanies 1.150.4; Eusebius, Preparation for the Gospel 9.6)
famously asserted, “What is Plato but Moses writing in Attic?” (Clement of Alexan-
dria, Miscellanies 1.150.4; Eusebius, Preparation for the Gospel 9.6)
Philo’s writings synthesized the philosophical tenets of Middle Platonism with
Jewish literature and teachings. It is interesting that Philo recorded a yearly fes-
tival at Alexandria in which the seventy elders responsible creating for the Sep-
tuagint translation of the Pentateuch were celebrated as inspired prophets and
legislators on a par with the seventy elders who received the divine law at Mount
Sinai (Philo, Life Of Moses 2.41–42). Greek “plagiarism” of Mosaic writings
was asserted at Philo, Special Laws 4.10.61; Who is the Heir of Divine Things?
213–14; Questions and Answers on Genesis 3.5; 4.152; cf. Runia 1986: 528–9;
Droge 1989: 47–8.
Jewish literature and teachings. It is interesting that Philo recorded a yearly fes-
tival at Alexandria in which the seventy elders responsible creating for the Sep-
tuagint translation of the Pentateuch were celebrated as inspired prophets and
legislators on a par with the seventy elders who received the divine law at Mount
Sinai (Philo, Life Of Moses 2.41–42). Greek “plagiarism” of Mosaic writings
was asserted at Philo, Special Laws 4.10.61; Who is the Heir of Divine Things?
213–14; Questions and Answers on Genesis 3.5; 4.152; cf. Runia 1986: 528–9;
Droge 1989: 47–8.
A class of
scribes with expertise in Mosaic law likely arose among the Jews around 185 BCE
on evidence of Sirach (Sir. 39.1). Priests and legal scholars emerged as the core
groups of fully distinct and opposing Jewish sects in the 160s BCE as the
Sadducees and Pharisees (Neusner 1971: 1.11–23, 61–68; cf. Josephus, Ant.
13.171, 297–8) whose struggle over control of the gerousia led to the intermittent
civil wars of ca. 100-63 BCE
scribes with expertise in Mosaic law likely arose among the Jews around 185 BCE
on evidence of Sirach (Sir. 39.1). Priests and legal scholars emerged as the core
groups of fully distinct and opposing Jewish sects in the 160s BCE as the
Sadducees and Pharisees (Neusner 1971: 1.11–23, 61–68; cf. Josephus, Ant.
13.171, 297–8) whose struggle over control of the gerousia led to the intermittent
civil wars of ca. 100-63 BCE
Manetho’s Aegyptiaca of ca. 280 BCE contained tales about the Hyksos over-
throwing the Egyptian gods, and Osarseph, the later Ramesside priest of Seth-
Typhon, also attacking the native gods. Manetho noted a slanderous oral tra-
dition current in his day that identified Moses with Osarseph and the Jewish god
with Seth-Typhon, the god of destruction who overthrew the gods of Egypt.
Remarkably, the biblical Exodus story appears to endorse some elements in this
hostile oral tradition found in Manetho; cf. Gmirkin 2006: 192–214.
throwing the Egyptian gods, and Osarseph, the later Ramesside priest of Seth-
Typhon, also attacking the native gods. Manetho noted a slanderous oral tra-
dition current in his day that identified Moses with Osarseph and the Jewish god
with Seth-Typhon, the god of destruction who overthrew the gods of Egypt.
Remarkably, the biblical Exodus story appears to endorse some elements in this
hostile oral tradition found in Manetho; cf. Gmirkin 2006: 192–214.
he extensive use of the Pentateuch, especially Exodus imagery in Second Isaiah,
indicates a date after ca. 270 BCE. Since all 66 chapters of Isaiah were found in the
Great Isaiah Scroll of Qumran, Second Isaiah certainly pre-dates 125 BCE. All the
prophets were known to Sirach ca. 185 BCE, including Isaiah (Sir. 48.23–25), and
the definition of the Prophets as a literary corpus alongside the Law in Sirach
suggests that the Prophets had already taken definite form. Sir. 18.2–3, which
contains monotheistic claims, is present in only some manuscripts, so is of un-
certain date.
indicates a date after ca. 270 BCE. Since all 66 chapters of Isaiah were found in the
Great Isaiah Scroll of Qumran, Second Isaiah certainly pre-dates 125 BCE. All the
prophets were known to Sirach ca. 185 BCE, including Isaiah (Sir. 48.23–25), and
the definition of the Prophets as a literary corpus alongside the Law in Sirach
suggests that the Prophets had already taken definite form. Sir. 18.2–3, which
contains monotheistic claims, is present in only some manuscripts, so is of un-
certain date.
See Gmirkin 2017. Plato’s Laws was used extensively in creating the law collec-
tions of the Pentateuch. Indeed, the Hebrew Bible as a whole was created ac-
cording to the program found in Plato’s Laws, one phase of which was the
construction of a national literature of approved texts consistent with the con-
stitution and law code. The extensive use of Plato’s Laws in the creation of the
Pentateuch and the Hebrew Bible in ca. 270 BCE is significant for the current
discussion, since ontology and cosmogony predominate the discussion of
theology in Plato, Laws 10.
tions of the Pentateuch. Indeed, the Hebrew Bible as a whole was created ac-
cording to the program found in Plato’s Laws, one phase of which was the
construction of a national literature of approved texts consistent with the con-
stitution and law code. The extensive use of Plato’s Laws in the creation of the
Pentateuch and the Hebrew Bible in ca. 270 BCE is significant for the current
discussion, since ontology and cosmogony predominate the discussion of
theology in Plato, Laws 10.
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