It’s an address. You get your mail sent there. You take your mail to the DMV.
If you are a sole proprietorship, yes, you can use a PO Box.
Banks are required to get various pieces of informs about their customers. One thing they are looking to get is the address where you live. This is about knowing who the customer is, for reasons that include, but are not limited to, fighting money laundering, terrorist financing and fraud.
So --applications for bank accounts will insist on getting an address from you that is not a P.O.Box, and then later you can give a mailing address if it is different.
You can go to your nearest homeless shelter and they can give you and address that the homeless in the area use for just that purpose. Make sure and ask. This is done all the time for the benefit of the homeless because in this society, you must have at least an address. Shelters and missions supply you with a valid address to use
the only “work around” for this is the new homeless fee waiver law they passed, but that requires you jump through 10,000 hoops (have to get an official letter on official letter head from a faith based organization to attest you’re homeless, you have to fill out a plethora of extra forms other people don’t have to fill out, etc). it creates a really significant barrier for most homeless in california as very few of them have the mobility and access to resources needed to satisfy these absurd requirements. Most homeless don’t have cars and some live in areas without good public transportation options, they don’t have access to phones to even call and find out where these places are. sometimes homeless live in areas where they are nowhere near an organization that will vouch for them. they’re entirely at the mercy of these organizations which may turn them away and refuse to vouch for them. and lastly the DMV staff might not even know about the fee waiver because they haven’t trained a bunch of their staff to even be aware of the policy yet. Some DMV staff will turn you away even when you legally meet all the requirements, because they don’t know the policy even exists.
So in short, it’s almost impossible to get a license or ID in california if you’re homeless. This is very wrong and probably unconstitutional, but the federal government hasn’t done anything about it, and homeless people have been denied basic human rights because of it for years.
It varies from store to store.
*IF* they allow you to rent a mailbox remotely, they will need (at the very least), a signed mailbox agreement, copies of two valid ID’s (per person), and a signed and notarized copy of a postal form 1583 (for each person on the mailbox), plus the required payment.
At my store, we do not allow remote rentals of the mailboxes. You *must* appear in person with your two forms of ID.
As for payment of rent to renew an existing box, policies differ from store to store.
The bank informed me that the address they mail a credit card to must be a US street address by law.
Virtual mailbox addresses cannot be used for banking purposes due to regulatory requirements for a physical address.
The Patriot Act requires financial institutions to have a physical address on file to prevent fraud and money laundering, which can be problematic when using a virtual mailbox as a domicile address.
Virtual mailbox addresses cannot be used to establish state residency for obtaining driver’s licenses or paying taxes.
Legal and government documentation requires proof of a physical location.
Legal and government documentation requires proof of a physical location
A residential address is the address where you live or your primary residence if you have multiple addresses (such as a vacation property or college dorm). You must be able to receive mail at your residential address.
Next to all the addresses listed on your credit reports as well as the new one you are giving them, the credit bureaus will have annotations that the banks can see. They flag business addresses, PO Boxes and commercial mail reception agents. Your UPS address will be flagged and the bank will not accept that address. The bank will decline your application.
I am not sure of the legal aspects of this situation but I am aware of multiple customers in my area who do this. At least two that I know of have the UPS store address listed on their driver's license, and I assume they use it in other documents as well. I would not be surprised to learn that more than those two have done so.
I wouldn't recommend it, however, unless you plan on keeping that mail box for a long time or will be honest about changing it on all your documents should your service at the UPS store expire. I have also seen people abuse the service for this very reason, renting a mailbox for the minimum term and then disappearing without leaving a forwarding address. Once all of their mail is being directed there, it is difficult to re-route it, so it is an effective way of going off grid, so to speak.
Please don't do that. Otherwise, as far as I'm aware, you are free to use it however the US government will allow you to.
"Tax statements for the real property described in this instrument should
be sent to:
............... (legal name of grantee) ............... (residential or business address)."
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/507/pdf
Must have owner's name and current address in Minnesota.
Yes. You may use general delivery as your temporary mailing address. It is not accepted as a residence address. A temporary mailing address can be used once to receive your license or card.
The maximum length of time for General Delivery is 30 days.
You'll have to fill out a small pink form indicating you want General
Delivery. In the "address" section of the form, put the hotel you are
staying at. General Delivery mail will be held at the post office in a
place designated for it. To pick your mail up, just go to the counter
with your ID.
You will have to fill out a Change of Address form at the post office
with your old address whatever your old address was, and the new address
as "General Delivery", with that particular post office's city, state
and zip code.
Minnesota property tax statement (current or prior calendar year)
OR proposed property tax statement (current year)
o Must list same address in both property description and
mailing address.
Filed property deed or title for current residence.
Valid license issued pursuant to the game and fish laws.
Electronic License System (ELS) requires that Minnesota residents 21 years of age and older furnish a driver's license number, public safety identification number as proof of residency.
yes, a driver's license agency checks for a residential street address, not a mailing street address. A residential address is the address where you live, and you must be able to receive mail there. Explanation
- A driver's license agency requires proof of residency, such as a utility bill, mortgage statement, or lease agreement.
Affidavit of residence for those in a group home, communal living
arrangement, cooperative, or religious order.
Residential lease agreement for the applicant’s principal
residence.
o Must show address and signatures
Statement from a housing with services building registered
under chapter 144D, nursing home licensed under chapter
144A, or a boarding care facility licensed under section
144.50 to 144.56
Subd. 4. [HOUSING WITH SERVICES ESTABLISHMENT OR ESTABLISHMENT.] "Housing with services establishment" or "establishment" means an establishment providing sleeping accommodations to one or more adult residents, at least 80 percent of which are 55 years of age or older, and offering or providing, for a fee, one or more regularly scheduled health-related services or two or more regularly scheduled supportive services, whether offered or provided directly by the establishment or by another entity arranged for by the establishment.
Housing with services establishment does not include:
(1) a nursing home licensed under chapter 144A;
(2) a hospital, certified boarding care home, or supervised living facility licensed under sections 144.50 to 144.56;
(3) a board and lodging establishment licensed under chapter 157 and Minnesota Rules, parts 9520.0500 to 9520.0670, 9525.0215 to 9525.0355, 9525.0500 to 9525.0660, or 9530.4100 to 9530.4450, or under chapter 245B;
(4) a board and lodging establishment which serves as a shelter for battered women or other similar purpose;
(5) a family adult foster care home licensed by the department of human services;
(6) private homes in which the residents are related by kinship, law, or affinity with the providers of services;Yes, in Minnesota, a "housing with services establishment" is essentially the same as an "assisted living facility" - meaning it's a residential setting that provides housing alongside personal care services for adults who need help with daily activities, with the specific terminology "housing with services establishment" being used in state regulations to define such facilities.
We tried but the bank was our roadblock. They didn’t view the campground as a permanent address which apparently is against fed banking regs.
Yes, a vacant lot can be assigned a street address, although you typically need to contact your local government or zoning office to formally apply for one, usually if you plan to build on the property or install a mailbox on the vacant land; you cannot simply use a vacant lot's address for mail delivery without proper registration with the postal service.
https://www.stateofflorida.com/residency/
(2) Any person who shall have established a domicile in the State of Florida, but who shall maintain another place or places of abode in some other state or states, may manifest and evidence his or her domicile in this state by filing in the office of the clerk of the circuit court for the county in which he or she resides, a sworn statement that his or her place of abode in Florida constitutes his or her predominant and principal home, and that he or she intends to continue it permanently as such.
Statutory residency: Does the individual maintain a permanent abode (a residence with
both kitchen and bathing facilities) in Minnesota and was the individual in Minnesota on
all or part of more than half of the days in the year?
https://www.house.mn.gov/hrd/pubs/resdomtax.pdf
If you don't mind the state, I recommend looking into America's Mailbox, in Box Elder, South Dakota. You can sign up for different options regarding how you want them to send you your mail. Some options have fees if you want. Some of the paying options include them emailing you photos of your mail before they mail them to you where ever you are. They help set up your DL in the state. They also have a campground. The law requires you stay 1 night in South Dakota, so staying in their campground covers that. No income tax in SD, also.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/mn-supreme-court/1385455.html
The Sanchezes' affidavit submitted to the tax court stated that during their visits to South Dakota, they retained a mailing address from My Home Address, Inc.,1 a company in Emery, South Dakota. Then, using their South Dakota address, the Sanchezes applied for and received South Dakota drivers' licenses, opened a checking account, obtained credit cards, registered their vehicles, and registered to vote. They also notified their insurance providers of their new address. The Sanchezes did not rent or purchase property in South Dakota, as they planned to travel and wanted to avoid the expenses and obligations of home ownership. Their affidavit states that they intended to return to South Dakota to rent or buy a home.
After their visits to South Dakota, the Sanchezes returned to Minnesota and stayed here until closing on the sale of their home on June 18, 2004. They then moved from Minnesota and have not resided in the state since that date. For the remainder of 2004, the Sanchezes traveled in their motor home to 13 states, the District of Columbia, and Canada, and did not return to either Minnesota or South Dakota. They did not seek medical services in 2004, but they received dental services in California. The Sanchezes filed their Minnesota 2004 tax return as “part-year residents,” believing that they were Minnesota residents until June 18, 2004, and South Dakota residents after that date.2 They also claimed Minnesota homestead status on their property tax filings through June 18, 2004.
The Commissioner of Revenue (the Commissioner) audited the Sanchezes' 2004 tax return. Based on the legal presumption that the Sanchezes' domicile continued to be Minnesota in the absence of proof establishing domicile in another state, the Commissioner treated the couple as full-year residents of Minnesota and assessed additional income tax, penalties, and interest for 2004. The Commissioner denied the Sanchezes' administrative appeal, and the Sanchezes appealed to the Minnesota Tax Court.
Florida, South Dakota and Texas are friendly to full-time RVers
My daughter lived in a KOA in Ft collins for 2 years (college). She established residency in CO with the address of the campground. Got her driver's license and voter registration with no issues.
While technically possible to use a KOA campground as a mailing address for a driver's license, it's generally not recommended as most states require a verifiable physical address for residency purposes, and using a campground address could raise questions about your legal domicile, potentially leading to issues when trying to obtain or renew your license.
Make sure the park allows it. We have an annual site in Florida, but aren’t allowed to occupy it more than 180 days a year and it explicitly cannot be used as your legal address because they don’t want anyone to claim tenancy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FullTiming/comments/uzvyz2/rv_park_as_permanent_address/
I use the street address of a mail box place. It's "slightly" wonky to get the enhanced license. But the only real problem I have had is with fidelity which utterly and entirely refused to do what I needed without proving I had a real street RESIDENTIAL address. they forced me to use a "friends" residential address for my private financial mail, specific to my investment accounts, when already sending me mail at the box address. I was luvid and went in circles with 1.5 hr waits on the phone for 9 months. I'm still beyond pissed but wanted the money moved (my dead mothers transferred to mine).
The DMV will recognize a PO box regardless if you use the "street" version of the PO Box address.
https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/food/docs/pwdu/bpm2rgstf.pdf
- education
Evidence of receiving a baccalaureate or post-baccalaureate degree in environmental health, sanitary science, sanitary engineering, or other related environmental health field. - Coursework completed
Evidence the degree includes at least 30 semester or 45 quarter hour credits in the physical or biological sciences. - Registered Environmental Health Specialist (REHS) in Minnesota, you need a degree with at least 30 semester or 45 quarter hour credits in the physical or biological sciences.
When i got my real ID last year, the computer flagged my UPS store adddress, and i had to get proof of physical address, which was a huge PITA. The whole point for me, of the UPS store, is protecting my privacy. Anyhow, side note, the rules and reg s seem to change daily, and especially when using a mvd express style office, different workers want different paperwork and contradict themselves and each other all the time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FullTiming/comments/uzvyz2/rv_park_as_permanent_address/
We used a PO Box for our permanent address, driver registration, etc. A lots of post offices now allow you to put the street address of the post office instead of “po box” eg 123 Anytown St unit 567
This worked fine for us while we were sticking around or repeatedly returning to that spot. The DMV will recognize a PO box regardless if you use the "street" version of the address.
If your park gives you a mailing address just use that.. Save any receipts for the park as proof of residency.
https://rvshare.com/blog/state-residency/
In addition to being a great place to have mail sent, the physical address you are given can be used for registering your vehicle, voting, and everything else you need to establish your residency.
Vehicle registration and insurance. Vehicles must be registered and insured in the state where you have your driver's license (your state of residency). This can usually be done by mail and, in the case of insurance, by phone, but there are several forms to fill out for the Department of Motor Vehicles.
We found that our mail service, Dakota Post in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, has a staff member specializing in helping people through the process. There is a fee associated with this service, but it is well worth it as she walked us through each step and personally visited the DMV to take care of the paperwork.
South Dakota requires RVers to stay one night in a campground and bring a receipt showing the names of anyone who wants to renew or get a new license.
They now have software on their systems also to see if the address is valid and who resides at the place as well
Unfortunately she gave a fake address to them. When you get your temps, they do a FEDERAL background check-the USDOT runs the check. She got caught right then and there and she got into a lot of trouble for it. With homeless shelters, they also give you a voucher to waive the fee for getting a license or state ID for free.
Traveling Mailbox is one. Check on the van dwellers thread for more. You can get what looks like a street address/ apartment number in your choice of cities, depending on the package you choose they will scan envelopes, open and scan what they tell you, even deposit checks if you set that up.
The addresses won’t fool the DMV and others that insist you have a physical home address, but they will fool your family and most others.
Finally, we conducted an internet search for each address to confirm it was a legitimate residential address in Colorado. We confirmed residence at that address through internet searches for any responses that raised the above red flags.
While you can use a commercial mail receiving agency (CMRA) address for certain purposes, such as registering to vote or for certain business registrations, the DMV usually seeks a physical residential address.
Temporary Address Options: Some people use a local rental address or a long-term hotel that allows for mail delivery. Mail Forwarding Services
: Consider using a mail forwarding service that provides a physical address and can forward your mail to you.https://www.quora.com/Will-California-DMV-allow-me-to-use-a-UPS-Store-mailbox-address-on-my-driver-s-license-I-plan-to-stay-in-Airbnb-for-a-long-term-and-I-ve-read-that-most-places-won-t-allow-a-person-to-receive-a-mail-there was told to use the police stations address for public record type of stuff, like my nursing license. It was surprising to me. I think he said I could do that with my drivers license as well. No, you should not use a police station address for your driver's license. In Minnesota, your driver's license must have your current residential address, which is the address where you live or receive mail.
permanent mail forwarding from USPS to a new residential address without changing address with the banks directly doesn’t work well and is unreliable ...at least one bank suspended my credit card as soon as they found out I moved from my old address and used permanent mail forwarding.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253442
I had given a bank my local mail store as a home address and they froze my account. The banks have a database of the mail stores and Know Your Customer rules require them to have the physical home address so be careful.
It's fraud if you put it on any government paper work as a home address. Also any contract like insurance will be void.
https://escapees.com/establishing-domicile-for-rvers/
The Black Hills National Forest is one of the best places to find free camping in South Dakota.
Be Physically Present in Your New State
There is a disturbing case out of Minnesota. A Minnesota couple, the Sanchez’s, sold their house in Minnesota where they had been domiciled, bought an RV and left the state. They spent a week in South Dakota doing the steps above. They got their new South Dakota address, they registered their vehicles and they got their drivers licenses. Then they left South Dakota and spent the next 1 ½ years traveling all over the United States.
Minnesota taxing authorities sued them, claiming they were still belonged to Minnesota. The Sanchez’s argued that they hadn’t been back to Minnesota, had no ties there, no house, nothing. But when the Sanchez’s also admitted they hadn’t spent any time in South Dakota, they lost their case. They had to pay back taxes, plus penalties and interest.
So, the moral to the story: it isn’t enough to choose a new state, go there for a week, fill out the paper work and then take off with no intention of returning to your new state of domicile. This is a tricky step on your path to creating and maintaining domicile.
There are exceptions to the following, but in most circumstances there is not a certain number of days you must be in the state or away from the state in which you domicile. However, you must, from time to time, visit your new state to show you intend to call it home.
As such, choose a state of domicile that will be part of your normal travel pattern—even if choosing that state causes you to pay more in taxes or insurance premiums.
Minnesota was able to discover the number of times the Sanchezs’ visited doctors and dentists in Minnesota. And, as you can guess, they maintained no such relationships in South Dakota.
The lesson here is that, as best you can, you should establish and maintain relationships with professionals in the county in which you domicile.
One referee had a home in Minnesota and a home in Florida and claimed that Florida was his domicile. Minnesota taxing authorities sued him alleging that he was actually domiciled in Minnesota. He showed that he had quit his tennis membership in Minnesota and joined a tennis club in Florida. The court determined that he must, indeed, be domiciled in Florida because “you can’t play tennis remotely.”
“People who travel full-time – If you are using a South Dakota mail forwarding address, you will need to complete the Residency Affidavit. You will also need to provide one document proving your temporary South Dakota address (a hotel/motel, campground or RV park receipt no more than one year old) and ONE DOCUMENT no more than ONE year old proving your personal mailbox (PMB) service address (receipt from the PMB business or a piece of mail with your PMB address on it).”
The exception language (above) that
South Dakota built in for full-time RVers applies for Driver’s
Licenses, Voter’s Registrations, and Vehicle Registrations. Remember
that your “Residency Affidavit”
is required and has strict penalties for perjury. We always recommend
that you contact your attorney or seek legal counsel if you have any
questions.
Driver License: You may call 605-773-3178 to change the address. There is no requirement that one have the correct address on their license—merely that it be correct in the DMV records. However, one may request a new license online, at https://dps.sd.gov/driver-licensing. There is no requirement that one reenter South Dakota to accomplish either the address change or the reissue of the license.
Vehicle Registration: likewise, there is no requirement for one to reenter South Dakota to change the address of record for vehicle registration. With a valid driver license, one may change their address of record by visiting www.mysdcars.sd.gov.
REAL ID-compliant driver's licenses and identification cards will be required in Minnesota starting May 7, 2025. REAL and Enhanced licenses have essentially the same function, except that the Enhanced can be used as a passport card that can be used to travel to and return from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda at land border crossings or sea ports-of-entry. It can also be used to board aircraft for domestic travel. You will be able to fly within the United States with an Enhanced Driver's License. As long as your license doesn't say "federal limits apply," you're good to go.
No, you don't need to provide proof of permanent residency to change your address on a standard Minnesota driver's license or ID card. However, you may need to provide proof of residency if you have a Real ID or enhanced card.
You will have to provide two proofs of residence to change your address if you have a REAL ID card. If something is not on the list, it will not work to change
Can An RV Be A Permanent Residence?
Stationary RV Living
In zoning areas that allow an RV to be parked on private land, an RV can usually be considered a permanent residence.
The land address where the RV is parked can be the permanent address.
Check the regulations of the area
you are considering to see where long-term parking is allowed and to
make sure your RV satisfies the requirements for a legal domicile.
https://theadventuredetour.com/can-you-live-in-an-rv-full-time-rv-living/
KOA campgrounds are open to the public, so anyone can use them, including for driver's license purposes
Campgrounds are usually considered commercial property, not residential. However, the classification of a property can vary depending on local laws and regulations.
but RV park mailing addresses are seen as a legitimate residential address. RV park memberships can be as little as 50$ a year while their mailing services cost a bit more like 150$. Mind you these prices at a cheapest.
https://www.reddit.com/r/legal/comments/14dn37z/rv_parks_and_tenancy/
Some of the commercial maildrops actually rent you an RV lot, which serves as a legal residential address.
(Alas, my maildrop in Florida does not, and cannot serve as a legal residential address. So I use it solely for mail.)
I use the company http://Americasmailbox.com
Had them for years nothing but good things to say.
you must prove a residential address to get a US PO Box.
The form to apply for a PO Box is here:
https://about.usps.com/forms/LiveCycle/psform1093_082019_lc.pdf
It specifically states:
ID REQUIRED Whether you apply online or at a Post Office, two valid forms of identification (one photo and one non-photo) are required when you obtain your keys or combination at the Post Office where your box is located. You must present the IDs at a Post Office. One item must contain a photograph and one must be traceable to the bearer (prove your physical address). Both must be current.
There is also this:
The information on your PS Form 1093 must always be current. As soon as any information changes (such as your street address, telephone number, or email address), you are responsible for updating the information. Failure to update your information may result in termination of service. We keep the form on file at the Post Office where you use the service
https://www.reddit.com/r/legal/comments/14dn37z/rv_parks_and_tenancy/
monthly guests had mail service which led me to believe that the month-to-month guests were treated as residents in a landlord-tenant relationship.
the contract says some troubling things:
-
"The RV park may not be used as a permanent residency address. USPS first class mail may not be received at the park."
-
"The premises shall be used for recreational/camping and no other purpose."
-
"This is an agreement for services. You are NOT registered at (name of RV park) under a landlord/tenant agreement and can be asked to vacate the premises at any time for failing to abide by the rules"
-
"No recreational vehicle shall be occupied as a permanent place of abide, dwelling, or business for indefinite periods of time. User may not claim (name of RV park) as their permanent address, voting address, or other place of residence. The address may not be listed on any official mail or documents. USPS first class mail may not be received at the park."
https://www.reddit.com/r/legal/comments/14dn37z/rv_parks_and_tenancy/
https://nomadgate.com/virtual-mailboxes-us-banking/
You establish residency in a state that is friendly to nomadic people. South Dakota, Texas, and Florida are popular for this. Montana is as well but requires the extra step of establishing an LLC. None of these states have income tax, btw. SD is my state of residence so I am biased, but it is very easy to establish and maintain SD residency. My mail is sent to a box where I have hired a service to scan each piece. I then decide if they should forward it to an address of my choosing, shred it, or scan the pages and upload them so I can see what's inside. My bank thinks I reside in SD, my vehicle is registered in SD, I have a Real ID license from SD, and I file my federal taxes from an address in SD. I have never lived in SD and in fact have only spent about 96 hours of my entire life in SD, but everything is legal per state and federal law.How to get a Real ID while on an RV vid
ONLY ESCAPEES HAD AN ADDRESS THAT WAS REAL ID COMPLIANT
If not -
In some states you can have a letter from a homeless shelter, which you just have to stay one night at. It says right on the drivers license application that counts. Unfortunately I know someone who used a UPS mailbox for 8 years until JUST NOW the other night he got a letter saying to contact them and that he cant use it for residence... To change his residence address or they will suspend his license. Just out of the blue. For no reason. It's kind of weird. its because its a commercial business (the ups store). Ive never heard of not being able to use your UPS box until just now. it was the dmv contacting him, not the ups store btw. I wrote that wrong.
I am a full-time RVer and have a mail forwarding South Dakota "residence". However, when you give your new address to your bank in your previous State, the bank refuses the address change on-line, stating the "USPS recognizes this address as a mail forwarding address and not a residency". My South Dakota driver's license has the little gold start on it too. So, the only alternative is to impose on relatives or rent an apartment?!! Help!
I’m a trucker.. I have my residency in AZ but they wouldn’t except my ups mailbox as a residence when I registered to vote. Also, at this moment I’m trying to open a investment account and I’m having the same problem. What can I do to get around this?
Tried to use my ups street address too but got declined, lmk if you find any answers I believe the trucker shortage is from the real ID fiascoYou can get a state driver's license without it being REAL ID compliant, which can be a pain, and instead just use the passport card.
If you decide not to get a REAL ID, or if you are not qualified to get one, you can still pass through airport security after May 6, 2025, if you show your standard driver’s license or ID along with your passport and boarding pass.
Standard driver’s licenses and IDs will still be good to use for basic things like driving, registering to vote, banking, buying alcohol or tobacco, applying for federal benefits, getting health care, entering a federal courthouse, etc.
Drove to Florida. Went to DMV. Got license transferred to my new domicile address via ESCAPEES. Done in one hour.
I went to Parker Mail and Package and they gave me an address they said I could use for registration and drivers license. I heard that people were questioned about that address so I rented a spot at La Paz County Park for a month.
South Dakota requires a ONE night stay and you can get a DL, residency, and new plates for your vehicle in one day :) America's Mailbox in SD (you can overnite in their camp) can help you with all of it.
even UPS stores, which has a physical address, are not accepted as a residence.
Thousand Trails has campgrounds in almost every state. They have an annual membership for around $700 last time I checked.
https://thousandtrails.com/about-us
$48 a month to camp in 200 locations across the U.S.!!
Customarily they have a shower house with private toilet and shower stalls, and most have washers and dryers, but those are usually coin operated, (or credit card these days). You can camp four days, move to a new campsite, camp for four days, and do that all year long.
Seasonally there is usually a nice pool and playground.
Also check out KOA, campgrounds of America, and other groups.
a seasonal job where we got a campsite in exchange, but you had to have and prove you had a list of a bunch of items basically eliminating anyone just sleeping out of their car.
Wow - fascinating! I drove through Sedona while I was in high school - with a high school friend. We laughed at the New Age rock store - crystals - saying "either Sedona will accept you and you'll thrive or it will chew you up and spit you out!" Wow - I wanted to get out of there fast. hahaha
Meanwhile in Denver Colorado:
This week, city outreach workers are trying to move about 50-60 people out of a migrant encampment in a parking lot at Elitch Gardens. Tents are lined up in the shadow of a roller coaster, and the amusement park is scheduled to open in April.
https://coloradosun.com/2024/03/22/migrant-families-housing/
GORP=good old raisins and peanuts
John Oliver explains how Mobile Home parks are super-exploitive.
Sears Roebuck and Company's mail-order "Modern Homes" program offered kit homes from 1908 to 1940. These homes were shipped in boxes by train to customers, who then assembled them. How it worked Customers selected a model from the Sears Modern Homes catalog
- They ordered blueprints and sent in a check
- Sears shipped the materials to the customer by train
- The customer or a contractor assembled the home
you’re supposed to have a verified residential address. You’re also supposed to update address changes within 30 days of moving addresses. Here’s my options so far:
-I can use my RV park’s address, if DMV hasn’t red flagged it as commercial property vs. residential, but with the requirement to keep your drivers license address current, it seems silly to follow that rule and get a new driver’s license every 30 days. Especially when your new address is already no longer your “new current address” by the time they update your license and mail it to you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FullTiming/comments/c2r0a3/full_timing_and_traveling_new_florida_domicile/
I have a Florida mailing address but since it’s a commercial property, similar to a UPS store, people have been having trouble trying to use it as their residential address. I can get a non-Real ID compliant driver’s license with my mailing address on it, but I could have hassles with agencies that want a real I.D.
Ask your RV lot to write that address on your receipt, or if they can write a letter proving your residential address. That, combined with any utilities you may have, should be sufficient for license and registration. I stay in an RV park in Dover. I was given a street address for my individual lot. The manager told me the local post office is starting to give out physical addresses to each lot to help with issues like this, considering fulltiming is becoming much more common.
The lot is zoned for RV/trailer residency, so it shouldn't be 'flagged' like a mall would be, for example. Your RV park address plus the lot number is a physical residency address, so that should be sufficient. I would suggest going this route, especially if you plan on being at your park for a while.
started using green cove srings and had a piece of mail from our bank sent there. that was good enough for the dmv to use that address on our dl. Maybe its flagged now? it wasnt then. We went to a dl office on the other side of the state with that and whatever else the state needed from us to get "real id" compliant. nobody in the dl office blinked at the green cove springs addy. I can truthfuly answer "is this your current address?" question with yes, thats my current maiing address.
Yea, I think it’s flagged now. A lot of commercial businesses are. The proof of residential address requirement for Real ID driver’s licenses is supposed to be your physical / residential address. So, technically, you’re supposed to use the residential address where you live and you don’t live at a commercial mailbox company. I’m pretty sure you sign something confirming “under perjury of law” that it’s the residential address where you reside. You can use most RV parks for a physical address but then you’re supposed to keep your address current on you’re drivers license within 30 days of moving to a new address.
When using the license plate address option, I think if you need a street address on your drivers license for something like buying a gun you can get a letter from DMV showing your most current address, you just tell DMV where you’re currently at when you ask for the letter.
Yea, nobody really cares if your DL address is current unless you get in trouble or something it could be used against you. I think it’s technically a misdemeanor punishable up to one year lol. I’ve only been pulled over once and the officer sternly reminded me that my DL is supposed to have my current address. I had a different address on my car registration than my license though so that caused extra confusion.
“Florida Boat Registration or Title (if living on a boat/houseboat)” as one of the acceptable forms of proof of residential address.
Oregon has a "continuous traveler" designation that can be listed on your ID. “continuous traveler” driver’s license you can use your mailing address (even a USPS post box probably) on your license and it says “continuous traveler” right above it.
Another issue I found is say you use an RV park address and you want to follow the rule to update your DL address within 30 days of moving (basically getting a new DL in the mail every 30 days) because it’s a misdemeanor punishable up to 1 year lol (even though it’s usually not enforced, yet).... you also have to change your vehicle registration each time because they’re both supposed to match.
SD has a letter stating you’re a full time traveler and you can use a commercial mailing service address instead of a physical/residential address, I think.
https://dps.sd.gov/driver-licensing/renew-and-duplicate/full-time-travelers
https://www.dakotapost.net/south-dakota-residency-services
It's all the other stuff address related that is proving difficult, if not impossible, including, but not limited to, carry permits, voter's... ...registrations, physical address requirements for professional licenses, various insurances, etc., etc., More if you want it, but off topic.
Oregon's "continous traveler" driver's license
the biggest problem was insurance. They don't want to hear "Fulltimer" "Continuous Traveler"
I took out a PO box and used the address
to claim residency. I registered and insured all vehicles to the PO box
address. For the State driving license, I have to provide an additional
"physical address" for their "internal records", but the license itself
does not bear that address. The physical address I used was
the RV park's address that we happened to be at, at that time.
I had been informed at that time, that the physical address can
be an arbitrary one, since it has to do with the computer system's
requirement and has little to do with taxation or licensing...or law.
Knowing that, why would one need a "CT" designation when
simply changing to a PO box might be a permanent fix in their
desired state?
NO PHOTOCOPIES WILL BE ACCEPTED
Van Life Essentials How to get a Real ID Drivers License While Living in a Van
Bring in "your social security card"
If you need proof of voter registration you can email Washington County Election Administration at
So you rent a space, then you register to vote with that address. Those two docs prove you are the resident.
If you use the address of a "mail forwarder" the DMV will spit it out...
Yes, Minnesota will stop issuing non-compliant driver's licenses and identification cards on May 7, 2025.
yes because change of address for RealID license still requires two proofs of residential address. When you do your annual renewal for the tabs you have to say what county the vehicle is parked in and where the residential address is and if it is different than the mailing address.
actually we are being told that "non-compliant" licenses are no longer being issued as of May 2025. Also I think banks now have the same verification system that spits out any virtual addresses that are not a residential street tax code.
Rent the cheapest room you can find on Craigslist in some college town where you can month to month rent. If you are older, just tell the owner that you are going to take night classes or finishing up some degree. Next, go to a local cell phone company like Bumblebee, or any of those cheap local cell phone providers that do not require a contract, or sign up for cheap internet, DSL or cable modem that does not require a contract. When you get your first bill after signing up, take that bill along with a month to month lease, and or any first class mail posted to you, or a postal service change of address form, and get your real ID license. Pay the 1st months rent and leave, or if you pay at the end of the month just bail!!! lol (oh ya,cancel service and drop off your cable modem at the local office) Forward your mail to PO box or mail forwarding service and hit the road.
wouldn't it be easier to just change your bank address to your new monthly lease address? Rather than having to cancel some "month to month" contract - those things always have hidden "gotcha" costs.
wouldn't it be easier to just change your bank address to your new monthly lease address? Rather than having to cancel some "month to month" contract - those things always have hidden "gotcha" costs. Also my driver's license renewal asks if your vehicle is parked in the same county as your address. So that limits where you could "rent" a cheap place - after that your vehicle would be subject to fines.
From what I can tell - the best route is to get your RealID before you become a Nomad - then when you need to renew your annual vehicle tabs you still need to verify where your car is parked - in what county - and if your mailing address is different than your residential address. So you would need a monthly campground in the county where your vehicle is parked - at least to renew the license - and transfer your bank address to that monthly campground. I honestly don't see any way around this because you can't transfer your bank account later on to a "virtual" mailing address without it getting flagged by the bank computer system. Only if your bank allows you to have two addresses - just like the DMV - one for mailing and one residential.
Yes, you can have a mailing address that is different from your residential address for a bank account. For example, you can use a mailbox address or a business address as your mailing address.
Allow five to 10 business days for FISHING license tags, permits and passes to arrive via U.S. mail.
You need a valid driver's license to buy a fishing license based on the new ID requirement but then you are given the option to edit your residential address after you enter the driver's license! Then it is mailed to you in 10 days - meaning you can use that for changing your address for a REalID requirement. Along with a monthly lease at a campground. As long as your campground is in the same county where you park the car - then when you renew your annual vehicle registration you can have a different mailing address than your residential address (set up for the driver's license that lasts for five years)....WOW I think this can work if I can find a campground that allows mail and has a monthly lease in my county - and I think that is possible.
Just ordered a $7 dark house ice spear fishing license!
if you have a friend or relative with a current VALID Nevada Drivers License or ID Card with the correct Residential Address printed on the front of the identification, that person may go with you to the DMV and vouch for you living with them at that address-They just present that License or Id and be that person and That's it... =) Also, In Oregon, six months of rv park receipts are required to prove residence.... But again, any friend or relative with an Oregon License or ID may accompany you to the DMV office, present that identification at the window with you, so long as you have all of the other documentation you require, that will be your proof of residence
I use the post office address and use my box number as “suite” , and it was fine, I asked the post office for permission and they said fine. It was a small post office in the country.
The SD DMV will have me sign a paper stating I am a full-time traveler and promise to return to SD when I stop traveling and not be a resident of any other State. On that same paper the DMV clerk will put the mail forwarding PMB address, which they will then put on my driver's license. They will not use the campground address. This way they will still give me a gold Star on my driver's license, because I promise to become a SD resident when I stop traveling. So after I get my SD driver's license and try to find a SD bank to open up a new account and/or notify my vehicle insurance company, and they see the driver's license, and see the PMB address on it, they will say that is not a residency address and I am not Federal compliant !! South Dakota full-time RVers still have to sneak by leaving off the PMB and only use the pound number (#), plus the number, and use that on most accounts with the exception of companies that request the driver's license.
Ex Parte Dickey, (Dickey vs. Davis), 85 SE 781
“Every Citizen has an unalienable RIGHT to make use of the public highways of the state; every Citizen has full freedom to travel from place to place in the enjoyment of life and liberty.”
People v. Nothaus, 147 Colo. 210.
“No State government entity has the power to allow or deny passage on the highways, byways, nor waterways… transporting his vehicles and personal property for either recreation or business, but by being subject only to local regulation i.e., safety, caution, traffic lights, speed limits, etc. Travel is not a privilege requiring licensing, vehicle registration, or forced insurances.”
https://pseudolaw.com/right-to-travel-united-states
Mail Forwarder who also had campsites & cabins to "rent".
Why don't you just keep an unofficial license and a passport. Isn't that easier
it's the same renewal restrictions - they want to know what county you park your car in and if your residency address is different than your mailing address.
you can buy land but to get a street address you need a residential tax status and that requires actually getting building permits, etc. But more importantly if people want privacy then a street address won't provide it. Once you get the street address - if it is zoned "seasonal recreational" that means it's not your residency. So you are forced to live there more than six months with all the expensive permits for septic, well, driveway, code building, etc. Then you have a "permanent residential address" as per the tax code. It might be possible to get an "unimproved residential" tax code by just getting a garage permit but then again since you now have a street address you just lost your privacy. So you could not live there in private anymore. So you can buy land but then if you want privacy you really can't use it.
So I am not required to get a Real ID driver's license.
we had to show a lease agreement with the RV campground and provide another bill with that same address on it, and even then the DMV was skeptical. However, after they Googled the address and discussed the matter, they did allow us to get driver's licenses and vehicle registration.
If you put 30-day RV park receipt as your address to get a drivers license - And registration.....how do you get notifications of tags due etc. to go to a mail forwarder. Who do you give your mail forwarder's address since that won't work for getting your DMV stuff done? I'm still confused. Sorry
Honestly, not really. Getting a driver's license and registering a vehicle in the U.S. usually requires a residential address. I mean, I had a friend who tried to get all this sorted while she was hopping from Airbnbs to friends' couches, and the DMV wouldn’t budge without proof of residency. They usually want stuff like a lease agreement or utility bill. If you don’t have a fixed address, some folks use a family member or friend’s address as their permanent address, but you’ve got to make sure they're cool with that. As for car insurance, they also like to know where the car is 'garaged'—insurance term for where it's mostly parked, so again, an address is needed.
If you're on the road in an RV, that's a bit different as some states have processes in place for folks who live the RV lifestyle. Places like South Dakota, Texas, and Florida are popular for full-time RVers because they make it easier to set up a domicile there, even if your house has wheels. These states have mail forwarding services that you can use as an address for all official paperwork while you’re roaming around.
These virtual mailbox addresses are all tagged as businesses in the USPS database.
Most states won't allow you to use them for a driver's license due to the REAL ID Act except for a few nomad friendly ones like South Dakota, Texas, or Florida though there are additional requirements. In SD, you have to sign a residency affidavit and get a receipt for a one night stay at a RV site or hotel.
So soon, there shall be no anonymous hermit cabins anywhere,...unless you never get a driver license.
171.11 DUPLICATE LICENSE; CHANGE OF DOMICILE OR NAME.
When any person, after applying for or receiving a driver's license, shall change permanent domicile from the address named in such application or in the license issued to the person, or shall change a name by marriage or otherwise, such person shall, within 30 days thereafter, apply for a duplicate driver's license upon a form furnished by the department and pay the required fee. The application or duplicate license shall show both the licensee's old address and new address or the former name and new name as the case may be.
A legal term, domicile is defined by the state or country
Subd. 45d.Residence address and permanent mailing address.
"Residence address" and "permanent mailing address" mean, for purposes of a driver's license or Minnesota identification card, the postal address of the permanent domicile within this state where an individual:
(1) resides;
(2) intends to reside within 30 calendar days after the date of application; or
(3) intends to return whenever absent.
171.11 DUPLICATE LICENSE; CHANGE OF DOMICILE OR NAME.
When any person, after applying for or receiving a driver's license, shall change permanent domicile from the address named in such application or in the license issued to the person, or shall change a name by marriage or otherwise, such person shall, within 30 days thereafter, apply for a duplicate driver's license upon a form furnished by the department and pay the required fee. The application or duplicate license shall show both the licensee's old address and new address or the former name and new name as the case may be.
Renew by Mail
- Review the information on the notice you receive. Enter any permanent address changes in the area provided on the back of the form.
Subp. 3. Considerations. The following items listed will be considered in determining whether or not a person is domiciled in this state:
A. location of domicile for prior years;
B. where the person votes or is registered to vote, but casting an illegal vote does not establish domicile for income tax purposes;
C. status as a student;
D. classification of employment as temporary or permanent;
E. location of employment;
F. location of newly acquired living quarters whether owned or rented;
G. present status of the former living quarters, i.e., whether it was sold, offered for sale, rented, or available for rent to another;
H. whether homestead status has been requested and/or obtained for property tax purposes on newly purchased living quarters and whether the homestead status of the former living quarters has not been renewed;
I. ownership of other real property;
J. jurisdiction in which a valid driver's license was issued;
K. jurisdiction from which any professional licenses were issued;
L. location of the person's union membership;
M. jurisdiction from which any motor vehicle license was issued and the actual physical location of the vehicles;
N. whether resident or nonresident fishing or hunting licenses purchased;
O. whether an income tax return has been filed as a resident or nonresident;
P. whether the person has fulfilled the tax obligations required of a resident;
Q. location of any bank accounts, especially the location of the most active checking account;
R. location of other transactions with financial institutions;
S. location of the place of worship at which the person is a member;
T. location of business relationships and the place where business is transacted;
U. location of social, fraternal, or athletic organizations or clubs or in a lodge or country club, in which the person is a member;
V. address where mail is received;
W. percentage of time (not counting hours of employment) that the person is physically present in Minnesota and the percentage of time (not counting hours of employment) that the person is physically present in each jurisdiction other than Minnesota;
X. location of jurisdiction from which unemployment compensation benefits are received;
Y. location of schools at which the person or the person's spouse or children attend, and whether resident or nonresident tuition was charged; and
Z. statements made to an insurance company, concerning the person's residence, and on which the insurance is based.
Some jurisdictions have a statute specifically for this, where you are cited for not updating the address on your license. If you update the license before you go to court, the citation is nearly always dismissed.
Some people deliberately let the address on their license go stale so they won’t get notices of suspensions, revocations, warrants, etc. They think they have an excuse for driving while suspended or for their warrant because they didn’t know, they weren’t properly noticed. Joke’s on them. Because the law requires licensees to keep their address current, a letter mailed to that address is deemed to be adequate notice.
The judge saw the kid was being harassed and being the kid could not proclaim any permanent address the case was dismissed yet he had to pay a non use of seat belt fine. The police can not continuously stalk someone to see if they are up to no good just to see if they are up to no good for it is entrapment and harassment. I know people who had problems with police and placed a restraining order on them for the person was not doing any illegal activity for several months and was getting followed, trailed, pulled over for the dumbest shit. We have rights as citizens and also have the right to privacy.
If you leave your previous address on your driver's license when you don't have a new address to put on it, you are technically in violation of state regulations and could face legal consequences if pulled over, as most states require you to update your address on your driver's license when you move, even if you are temporarily homeless or living in a shelter
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/76yz2l/mnrenewed_my_drivers_license_yesterday_lady_at/
because my home address is two hours away from my school) and I told her Minneapolis. She then crossed out the address I wrote and made me put in my apartment address, citing that if it comes with a lease then it's my official address and it's a ticketable offense to have the wrong address listed on my license. She also said I'd have to get to the post office and fill out a change of residence form "so that I get my license mailed to the correct address."
yes, in Minnesota you are required to update your address on your license every time you move, students included. She said if I'm paying rent while in school, I need to update my license. I cited my confusion stemmed from all my friends that I've spoken to who said that they had no problem renewing their license and using their parents' home addresses, and she simply said "I don't know how they get away with it, but they are required to pay the same as everyone else and update their license." It seems like a done case, and I had to update my address with the post office too as they won't deliver my license to my apartment unless I'm registered at the address.
She's completely wrong on the post office aspect. They explicitly won't forward MN driver's licenses.
Before she graduated my wife was pulled over for speeding in San Antonio and the cop commented on her license and insurance card address not matching. He was going to give her a ticket for that but she said she was a full time student which apparently made that ok.
a permanent change of address request
If you're only relocating for 15 days up to 1 year (like going to school or staying with family or friends), submit a temporary change of address request.
Your change of address order only changes your mailing address with the Post Office. You must still update government agencies (like for your benefits, driver's license, and voter registration) and companies (like banks, insurance, online stores, etc.).
The billing address on your credit card must match either your old or new address.
Customers may extend the temporary forwarding period up to a maximum of 12 months (364 days), by filing a second change-of-address order to begin on the first day of the second six-month period (the 186th day)
Mail addressed to an addressee at a commercial mail receiving agency (CMRA) is not forwarded through the USPS. The CMRA customer may make special arrangements for the CMRA operator to remail the mail with payment of new postage.
https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/507.htm#ep1113059
Only USPS can deliver packages to PO boxes. Private carriers like UPS, FedEx, and DHL generally do not deliver to PO boxes.
If you live in a dorm at school, it's considered a temporary address change rather than a lease, as you are only residing there for the duration of your studies,
Within 30 days after changing permanent address
Change of address; loss or destruction of permit.
(a) Within 30 days after changing permanent address,
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/zgbvgq/im_not_sure_what_to_put_as_my_legal_address_for/I will not have a permanent address in Minnesota for the first 4 months I am there, as I will be living in short term housing.
While they are transient, Illinois is not going to accept that as a change of residency....His plans to be nomadic leave him an Illinois resident.
No, a state ID alone does not definitively prove permanent domicile; while it can be considered evidence of residency in that state, other supporting documents like tax returns, utility bills, voter registration, and property ownership are typically needed to fully establish domicile
Residence can be temporary or transient, while domicile indicates a permanent commitment
to be presumed domiciled outside Ohio for tax purposes, a person must not only reside at least 182 days a year outside Ohio, but must also file a statement with the Ohio Tax Commissioner confirming that he or she is not domiciled in Ohio.)
(Established two requirements for obtaining a new domicile: physical presence in a new residence, and intention to remain at that location. A temporary residence may become a domicile by a change of purpose and election to remain at that location as a home.)
the notion of ,,domicile” in the sense of the right to own
a dwelling. The importance of establishing the domicile or temporary residence is determined by
the legal effects it produces from the point of view of constitutional, civil, criminal, family law, etc.
https://ibn.idsi.md/sites/default/files/imag_file/208-215_6.pdf
the Regulation imposes a restriction; persons can have only one domicile and/or one temporary residence at a time.
If they have several dwellings, they may register their domicile or temporary residence in
any of them.
The legislator regulated the way of establishing the temporary residence, without changing
the person’s domicile, so that the registration of the person in temporary residence does not
entail the obligatory deregistration from the domicile records [19, pt. 100].
does not have a document certifying the right of use
(such as, a lease, loan agreement), in addition shall be submitted in writing, as appropriate:
1) the declaration of receipt in the living space by the owner or co-owners of the dwelling
- natural person, which can also be drawn up at a notary:
2) the request for reception in the living space by the owner or co-owners of the dwelling
- legal person.
"Campers and trailers must be licensed and must be removed from the site between December 1 and May 1....no occupancy will be allowed which may in any way lead to a claim of residency and any permanent residency is expressly prohibited....required to maintain a separate permanent residence."
LEASED SEASONAL-RECREATIONAL LAND. county leased seasonal recreational land
the domicile is one of the few places, where the person has the opportunity to enjoy privacy, to rest after a day of work, to keep their personal belongings and, not lastly, to feel safe.
Residence
- Definition: A residence is a place where an individual lives temporarily or for a short period. It does not imply a permanent home.
- Characteristics: You can have multiple residences; for example, a student might reside in a college dorm while their permanent domicile is with their parents. A residence can also be a vacation home or an apartment rented for a job.
Domicile
- Definition: Domicile is the place where an individual intends to reside for an indefinite period and is considered their permanent home.
- Characteristics: An individual can only have one domicile at a time, even if they own multiple properties. Domicile is established by the intent to remain in a location for the long term.
- (Residence in fact, coupled with the purpose to make the place of residence one’s home, are the essential elements of domicile.)
- “Domicile,” however, means living in a locality with intent to make it a fixed and permanent home, while “residence” simply requires bodily presence as an inhabitant in a given place.)
- A person’s domicile is where the person has a true, fixed, permanent home to which, when absent, the person has the intention of returning.
- A person can have a residence that is not the person’s domicile.
- Essential elements of domicile are residence in fact with the purpose to make the place of residence one’s home.
- Residence just requires bodily presence in a given place; domicile means living in a place with the intent to make it a permanent home.
-
For purposes of the physical presence test, your presence within Minnesota for any part of a calendar day constitutes a day spent in Minnesota. You should keep a daily log of your location and maintain travel records to substantiate the days spent in Minnesota, in your new domicile and elsewhere. An exception to this rule is when you are traveling between two points outside of Minnesota and you transit through or layover in Minnesota.
The statute uses the term “abode” which simply means a dwelling that you or your spouse maintains. It does not matter whether you own or rent the dwelling and it does not matter whether you occupy the dwelling.
https://www.saltpartnerstax.com/understanding-change-of-residency
you will be considered a resident of Minnesota if have an abode (home) in Minnesota and you spend more than half the year (183 days or more) in Minnesota. This requirement is discussed in the Physical Presence Section below.
You should demonstrate your intent to remain there indefinitely. This can include changing your address on official documents, registering to vote in the new location, or getting a driver’s license in that state.
- Residence can be temporary or transient, while domicile indicates a permanent commitment.
- Legal Implications: Domicile affects legal rights and responsibilities, whereas residence does not carry the same weight in legal contexts.
you can only have one domicile at a time. However, you can have multiple residences.
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